Turn Your Story Into Your Competitive Advantage with Dave Gerhardt

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.240 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:22.120 Welcome in to today's episode of be to be growth. Today I'm joined by 3 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:28.960 Dave Gerhart, founder of DGMG, former marketing execuet drift and Privy Dy've welcome 4 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:32.039 into the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Ben Jim. I'm 5 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:35.679 happy to be here. Yeah, you'r you got me fresh off the audiobook 6 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:39.159 recording and so I might. If you just want me to read the audiobook 7 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.920 for forty minutes, I could do that if you'd also like. Your Voice 8 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:47.280 is like lower. You're coming in with that author mentality and the vocals. 9 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:50.200 Yeah, no, you know what, it's actually funny. My voice is 10 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:56.280 actually I never wore headphones doing podcasts and I always feel as I was yelling 11 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:00.560 or talking over people, and I've found that monitoring my voice actually makes me 12 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.439 a much more tolerable speaker, as you obviously can probably understand. Yeah, 13 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:08.040 I definitely can. I am very loud by nature, so I'm sorry if 14 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.959 I come in super loud in your head, but I definitely resonate with that. 15 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.120 I wear the headphones, I hear my voice in my head I'm like, 16 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.920 Whoa, this is a little different. But so congratulations is in order 17 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.840 the new book. It's out. It's called founder brand. Turn your story 18 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:27.000 into your competitive advantage. So congratulations. Thank you. It's still a number 19 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:30.079 one book on Amazon and Marketing Right now, which is a which is pretty 20 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.000 cool. I wish I had more reviews. I guess there's a whole strategy 21 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:37.760 that I could have done to get reviews on launch day and I know marketing 22 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:40.079 people are listening to this. So that's the only reason why I'm sharing this 23 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:42.560 this level. This where want then to help. But but it's awesome. 24 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:46.599 It's been a fun week and it's cool to see people with like a's cool 25 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.239 to now see that like that order day was cool, but now I'm sorry 26 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.560 to see pictures of like people sending the book and it's really cool. Thanks. 27 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.120 HMM. Yeah. So today what we want to do is we want 28 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:00.799 to walk through the book in its sense. The marketing strategy that you used 29 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:06.799 to help drift become one of the fastest growing SASS companies of all time and 30 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:10.280 achieve a over a billion dollar valuation set the scene for us because it also 31 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:15.439 sets the scene for the book. But how did you come across this marketing 32 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:19.280 strategy? Yeah, I mean I think that the drift, like I use 33 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:23.039 that drift example because it like titles nice and it's like a sexy, like 34 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:27.400 click battish title. But, like, I think looking back like this helped 35 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.680 privy when I was there for Eddie Year and for your and a half, 36 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:35.280 and it's even been like the underlying kind of playbook that I've been subconsciously running 37 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:38.120 for myself, yeah, building my own thing and in the marketing space, 38 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.520 and so I think it's more about, like, look, I think most 39 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:49.439 people still, from a business perspective, under rate or use social media improperly. 40 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:55.639 They still kind of discount podcasts because everybody's has one, and they still 41 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:00.479 discount storytelling, which is like look, my book is not about publishing on 42 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.080 Linkedin five times a day and like you will magically grow. Like this whole 43 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:09.080 thing works a hundred million times better when you have something interesting to say. 44 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:15.840 And so when I went to drift, it was like this amazing career opportunity 45 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:21.439 because I got this founder who's wellknown in a cool space. He kind of 46 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:25.479 already has a following and I know podcasting and I know social media and he 47 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.479 wants to say things and challenge beliefs and put a new point of view in 48 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.719 the world. It was like wow, these ingredients are really powerful and they 49 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:37.120 worked like magic to help grow drift in the early days. And that magic 50 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:38.360 is not like a growth heck word, just like. It was just amazing 51 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:42.960 combination. We created a podcast that had nothing to do with the product that 52 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.919 we were selling and the podcast was the thing that like created our initial audience 53 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:50.599 and built like these these super fans. And I give it a shout out 54 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.240 in the book, but there's a guy named Henry who was like a early, 55 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:57.520 early drift customer and Drift Super Fan, and I talked about the the 56 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.680 like how, when you do this, you when you have a story and 57 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:01.960 you're on social media, you have pockets and you create super fans, not 58 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.639 just SASS customers, but like super fans. Henry, who was early drift 59 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:11.360 customer, he invited me to his wedding and we've stayed in touch. His 60 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:15.680 fiance. Yeah, he end up getting engaged to this girl, Chrissie, 61 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:19.199 and Chrissy like helps me with so much dgmg stuff and so like. That's 62 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:23.439 not a it's not a made up story. But and we're be tob software 63 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:26.079 company, like you know who should be super fans of that? Nobody, 64 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:30.279 and I think that's the that's the opportunity is like it's a storytelling, it's 65 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.439 the using social media and ultimately, what I saw at drift and we, 66 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.959 and I think we really did a good job of this, was we didn't 67 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:41.759 need other people to write about us in order for us to get our message 68 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:44.680 out there. And so, like, we never had a PR agency that 69 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.560 helped us do all this stuff. We never had an outsourced content agency that 70 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.399 helped us do all this stuff. It was because we had a story and 71 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:54.319 we had our own publishing channels that, like, when we wanted to do 72 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.360 a product launch, we wrote a blog post about it, we emailed our 73 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.600 list about it, we tweeted about it, and I just lived this this 74 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.920 last week and launching my book. Like I don't have a PR team. 75 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:08.240 I've been literally in my sweatpants in my house doing podcast interviews. How did 76 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:12.079 you and I get connected? Right, like I reach out to Djmg Peete 77 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:14.480 community member to say hey, if anybody would love to have me on their 78 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.160 podcast, I'd love to do it because I'm launching a book. And on 79 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.480 launch day I sent an email to like the twelvezero people on my email list 80 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:24.600 and now I'm following up on opportunities from that. I didn't I didn't have 81 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:28.240 some like PR pitch that like I hoped tech crunch would pick up and write 82 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:32.680 about, and I think more companies can tap into this playbook and that's like 83 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:36.160 really what we talked about in the book. Yeah, it's so interesting because 84 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:41.560 there is this thought process, I call everyone has a podcast now or everyone's 85 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.920 doing this and but in honestly, I mean in the Bob Space maybe, 86 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:47.480 you know, you see the top twenty percent maybe doing it, but there's 87 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.879 so many people who are interested from afar not executing on it. There's so 88 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.959 much more space for interesting perspective. Yeah, well, okay, say there. 89 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.040 You said like how there's so much competition. I was I was thinking 90 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.639 of because I tried to give you a drift example and think about drift the 91 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:02.639 same time. Like one of the cool lessons that I learned from the guys 92 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.639 that drift was like just because a market is crowded doesn't mean you shouldn't go 93 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:10.759 into it. In fact, because the market is crowded, you already have 94 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.319 one of the biggest things there, which is like there's demand there's there's need, 95 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:15.800 and so, like you could look at it and say, well, 96 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:20.360 they're people clearly listen to podcast. And so what's my angle? What's the 97 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:24.319 what's the unique opportunity that I have? And I talked a lot about in 98 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.959 the book, about like the power of a niche. MMM, like this 99 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.560 podcast that you're on is not the growth podcast where you talk about how to 100 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:35.319 grow businesses. You talked very specifically to like be to be SASS businesses. 101 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.279 Yep, and that and that's why it works. And so I like and 102 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.160 as a marketing person, I actually think that that's the fun part. It's 103 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.160 like great, everybody says there are there's already a million podcasts out there. 104 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.959 How are you going to create a different one? It's the unique point of 105 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.439 view and you it takes time, right to develop your voice, and it's 106 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:58.360 the storytelling piece, which is a huge I mean that's the whole first chunk 107 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.279 of your book. So it's like Perfectlydan, because you have these really three 108 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:04.560 levels to creating a founder brand that I want to I want to walk us 109 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:10.800 through. But before we even get there, is there like an approach, 110 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:14.439 something you really like gearing toward it, like when you're thinking of a founder 111 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.759 brand? Are you gearing this towards start up specifically? Do you think it's 112 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.519 more broadly applicable even for companies that are, you know, founders, that 113 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:26.600 are more already have established companies? What's your thought there? I think the 114 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.120 benefits can be I think any of those scenarios that there can be benefit. 115 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.160 But yeah, for me, my kind of experience has been in the thing 116 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:36.040 that I love, is like in the building, in like the creation stage, 117 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:40.879 and so I think of it as like it's so hard to start a 118 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.959 business and to get product market fit or get initial traction and get product market 119 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:49.399 fit and and jump start that thing. My point of view is like everyone 120 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:54.519 just kind of goes instantly to like market the features and benefits of that product, 121 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.120 and I understand why. You you have customers, they have pains, 122 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.199 they have needs, right, but like what I found is like that create 123 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.519 like when you do the founder brand thing, you can kind of get some 124 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:07.319 wind at your back and some air cover, and I know a lot of 125 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.920 people will roll our eyes at that word, but but it really works because 126 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.600 when people have heard of you, like who's going to be who's which outbound 127 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.720 sales rep is going to be better the outbound sales rep who's doing outreach for 128 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:20.439 a company no one's ever heard of or a company that everyone's heard of and 129 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.040 now they're knocking one are, and so I think, I think that it 130 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.879 can just get in a world where you need every advantage you can create a 131 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.159 start this business and get traction. I think building the founder brand is a 132 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.519 good one. But even at like I went to privy and they had five 133 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.799 hundred thousand people using their product and they were close to, I guess, 134 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:45.039 like ten million in revenue. But been as a founder, didn't didn't, 135 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:46.600 he hadn't done a ton of things, and so you know, we saw 136 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.600 benefit from when he started to do that. And I'm sure you could make 137 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:54.720 the case that there's a origin five hundred CEO whatever. But the thing that 138 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.519 I love is startups and I love, and I don't just even me and 139 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.720 tech startups. I just love, love people that have chosen like build their 140 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:03.399 own thing and are doing their own thing and they're they're trying to build something 141 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.879 from nothing. I love that phase of it and so the book that I 142 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.600 wrote was really to it's it's to help those people find and find an advantage 143 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.039 and think about a different playbook that they might not have thought about. Also, 144 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:16.840 in the earlier stages of a company is when that can give you the 145 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:22.559 greatest advantage because right, Yep, like why would I buy from this company? 146 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:24.159 And I'm like, Oh, actually, I found out that Benji actually 147 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:28.840 has been in this has has had this thing in his family for twenty years 148 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.159 and like he has kind of got always been doing this thing and now he 149 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.440 started the company. So like they can give you credibility at as you're doing 150 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.200 it right, like and so I think it's like it's one of the non 151 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.720 obvious ingredients. And I've also found that, like a lot of founders, 152 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.039 the reason they start the business is because they have that story or they have 153 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:52.000 some deep pain or passion or had some big insight, and there's usually some 154 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.960 why. Like rarely as the founder like oh I hello, I'm Dave and 155 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.120 I started this business because I want to get wealthy, because business is business 156 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:03.159 is to it's too hard. And usually it's like no, this is toby 157 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:09.080 and he's an engineer and he's actually also into snowboarding and they want to sell 158 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.120 snowboards online. But he ended up like it was really hard to do that, 159 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.840 but he's a really badass engineer, and so he built his own platform 160 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.720 and like Holy Shit, now other people can sell snowboards online and that company 161 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.559 becomes shopify. And so I think most often founders have some type of story 162 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.720 like that, which makes for just like great marketing, you know, content 163 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:33.360 that you can use. So when you think of storytelling, I guess like 164 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.320 what's vital in the founder story? And then where do you feel like you 165 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.960 could just cut the fat, so to speak, because I feel like there's 166 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:45.360 so many aspects to someone, and I I mean we could broadcast anything about 167 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.720 the founder right, right, but there's got to be a cohesive story. 168 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.000 A bit. What are the things that you want to talk about? What 169 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.279 things do you want it? What things can you talk about credibly that are 170 00:10:54.360 --> 00:11:01.159 going to be interesting to your potential dream customers, and isolating those one or 171 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.960 two things down and then like kind of just channeling, like those are your 172 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.360 two talk tracks that you're just thinking about. This is what will be known 173 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:11.000 for. Yeah, and so like with David a drift, it was like, 174 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.879 okay, this guy, drift is his fifth company and he's done a 175 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.799 bunch of startup things and he's had a bunch of acquisitions. And so like 176 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:22.720 one of his big talk tracks is going to be startups and entrepreneurship and product 177 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.080 great, okay, so let's focus in those areas. Let's talk about those 178 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:31.159 things. What's he writing about that? What perspective does he have about those 179 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.240 things? What what's interesting happening in this word, because you can't just say 180 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.039 you're those things, but then you never have anything to like bring to the 181 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:41.919 conversation as a publisher. And so he was like prolific at like tweeting and 182 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:45.639 just you know kind of those. He would tweet something about like how he 183 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.519 hates product managers that have mb are. Do you never hire a product manager 184 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.320 that has an MBA? And that tweet just like cause the shit storm and 185 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:56.600 it was awesome. Yeah, and so from that tweet it was like well, 186 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:00.480 people, clearly this topic struck nerve. Let's go create more about this. 187 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:01.600 And so we did a podcast episode on that and then we turn it 188 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:05.120 into a video and we did an article. And so think you have to 189 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.399 Chanlie and and also on the other side that he other side was like, 190 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.000 okay, well, that's that's great, he can build the audience startups, 191 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:15.600 entrepneurship, but we're in the sales and marketing space, and so he's also 192 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.440 got to be talking about his experience over the last twenty years in sales and 193 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.360 marketing. And so I think there are lots of different angles to tell your 194 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.879 to tell the story, and even in a book like mine it's Toff to 195 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:30.879 give like formulaic advice because there's just marketing is often, like any greet, 196 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.399 an exercise and just like finding different ingredients that you have. But I think 197 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.399 you got to be able to isolate like one or two categories are things that 198 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.039 you want to talk about that will help you begin to attract like minded people 199 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:48.519 in your niche. One of my favorite ingredients is having an identifying a villain 200 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:54.240 or an enemy and really building on that, because you can build great content 201 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.440 off of that and it gives you clear I mean any good story right. 202 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:00.240 I'm sure I don't know what your favorite movie is, but all the movies 203 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:05.759 that we enjoy there's a clear villain or enemy that it works so well in 204 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.919 content. So how did you identify that? When you think of a founder 205 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:16.159 story and really building off of villain or an enemy? I mean the identification 206 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.919 was because just observing what what makes good stories right and I think so often 207 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:26.240 we get into our world of like bdb marketing and like, but we don't 208 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:31.639 we don't think about what what an actual like, what would an actual good 209 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.360 story be? We were like, no, I got to do what? 210 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.559 This is a Beeb marketing thing in where enterprise, cyber security, whatever. 211 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:39.720 But if you zoom all the way out, and I think what I learned 212 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:41.879 at trip was like just kind of first principles about like we're going to try 213 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.639 to find a way to be interesting to people first, and when it comes 214 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.399 to people, creating a villain allows you to kind of have some like shared 215 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:56.759 cause and shared enemy or thing you're rallying around. But like a villain and 216 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.600 there's every story has a villain. But the villain doesn't have to mean like, 217 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:05.080 you know, your competitor or some like arch enemy, like a drift. 218 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.320 We created a villain that was fake, fake, its no forms are. 219 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.919 Our villain was lead forms right. And like if I could go hard, 220 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.279 to go really hard with an angle for this book and say that my 221 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:18.440 villain is PR agencies who charge twenty grand a month and don't deliver you the 222 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.679 results at the book will. or it could be like I'm really into golf 223 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:24.279 and there's this really cool, this great podcast that I've been listening to you 224 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.039 lately, called them chasing scratch, and it's about these two guys who are 225 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.600 in their s and have kids and they're trying to get better at golf and 226 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:37.200 so like their villain is just like time and being mediocre, and that's like 227 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.799 a thing that we can all rally around. And so I think it's more 228 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:46.200 about like creating a shared cause that you and your customer can, like your 229 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.720 ideal customer, can rally around and surprise, you're the one that's going to 230 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:58.039 help them tackle this this perceived villain. HMM. Yeah, having that heroes 231 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:03.519 journey in a sense, in your marketing man it can help move and create 232 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.240 momentum and in unique ways. I'm going to check out that podcast. That 233 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:09.679 sounds super interesting. That's like such an important lesson you mentioned. If you 234 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.399 really want to geek out in this, Google Joseph Campbell. Yes, journey 235 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:20.120 right, because that's the real answer to like you know, he goes back 236 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.879 through history and philosophy and basically breaks down like hey, look, stories have 237 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:30.039 been the thing that just like connect people forever and there's some natural ingredients at 238 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:31.360 all these stories have and so if I'm going to start a business, I'm 239 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.840 going to think about how can build around that. Why would you not use 240 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.919 that tier advantage? Yep, there's a lot there. So enjoy the digging. 241 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:43.200 Enjoy listening to Joseph Campbell explain things, because he is a master at 242 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.960 it and he'll draw some conclusions you maybe didn't see coming. Okay, so, 243 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:50.480 level to content and publishing, there's a lot here. Part of the 244 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.519 unique story that you unique situation you were placed in as someone that had a 245 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.919 large twitter following already, so like fortyzero followers. You obviously wanted to leverage 246 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.399 that. How did twitter start to fuel the podcast? And then what is 247 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.679 the podcast kind of be come from there? Because I think that from twitter 248 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:14.679 to podcast and beyond is an interesting jumping off point for us. Sure, 249 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.039 so David had a lot of so this is like an like, you know, 250 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:19.600 an exercise of like thinking. This is the fun part of marketing. 251 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.960 Is like, okay, I got to achieve this goal. How am I 252 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.559 going to do that? Well, didn't really have a budget. We raised 253 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:27.639 a bunch of money, but they're like, you don't have a budget yet 254 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.360 and no product yet. Right, no product it. So we had lots 255 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.559 of money in the bank, but it wasn't to be used to to play 256 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.360 marketing. They were like figure it out without money and then you might get 257 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:38.080 some money later. And so it's like okay, well, what are the 258 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:41.720 ingredients? And one of the things that they bet on was like David's social 259 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:47.360 following. However, it wasn't like, oh, he just tweets out a 260 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.399 link to a drift Webinar and like people sign up and like that's how the 261 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.960 business was built. Is like people, people don't want to just be sold 262 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.600 to and then they don't want promotional stuff. And so with him it was 263 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.279 like wow, just seeing the stuff he would put out. He'd always wanted 264 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:06.079 to question beliefs and share interesting takes, and so his twitter was what had 265 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:11.559 grown. First we started the podcast basically off of twitter, because he had 266 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:12.519 this idea. He's like, I want to do a podcast. You know, 267 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.240 he's obsessed with learning and all the stuff, and he had this he's 268 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.240 like, I want to start this podcast called seeking wisdom, where I talked 269 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.400 about books and I talked about, you know, lessons from building the company 270 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.680 and whatever, rants on marketing and sales and and so I was like great, 271 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:27.559 I'll help you do the podcast. I know how to do it, 272 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:32.359 I got gear. Let's go. So and he had already been tweeting a 273 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:34.240 bunch, and so we were like in any had followers, and so I 274 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.759 was like, okay, just here's a topic that like kind of took off 275 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.920 on twitter. Let's make that your first podcast episode. But he went into 276 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.480 the room. He would try to record it by himself and he's like, 277 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.759 I can't, I can't just sit in here by myself and like talk, 278 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:52.079 and I didn't want to insert myself like this random twenty year old marketer in 279 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.519 my late twenties, like I'm not gonna be like, let me be your 280 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:56.000 cohost. Man Like it, because they who wants to hear for me. 281 00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:00.599 So I end up starting to just try to interview him because I'm like, 282 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.000 let me interview you about this topic and we'll cut me out and make it. 283 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.839 But our conversations became very like real and I was learning from him and 284 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.640 we're at different points of our career, and so were we ended up like 285 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:17.440 creating this podcast and calling and seeking wisdom and launching and we interview each other 286 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.000 and it was driven by twitter because he already had that audience there. We 287 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.599 had a sense of like what topics people are interested in, and so in 288 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.160 the book I talked about like I don't talk about Tick Tock, I don't 289 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.039 talk about instagram and talk about Youtube. I'm the biggest believer in all those 290 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.680 platforms, but from from building your brand as a founder, I just think 291 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.480 that the twitter and Linkedin give you the best opportunity to succeed, because it's 292 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.200 all you need to be successful as text. You can post often, you 293 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:47.799 can get really quick feedback, and so, like with David likes through twitter. 294 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.480 Then he would post like a eat would he would send me. Like 295 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.240 on Instagram he post a picture of like a book he was reading and like 296 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.680 twenty people message him and they're like what book is this and he's like we 297 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:00.240 should do book reviews. Awesome. So we we started doing book reviews and 298 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.480 the book reviews started to become really popular. They're like our most popular episodes. 299 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:10.240 We we felt that when we did a book review we would get the 300 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:15.160 most DMS and reviews and emails after that. And so the stuff that I'm 301 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.279 talking about right now, this is like the whole book. This is what 302 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:19.000 the book is about. It is and this is what people don't understand. 303 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:22.640 It's like there's not some spreadsheet, there's not some like one metric. It's 304 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:27.200 like so much of the value about being on social media and and and and 305 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:32.640 becoming a publisher like this is this feeling. Is like there wasn't some spreadsheet 306 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.200 like number analysis that said, like do more podcasts about books. It was 307 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:41.400 like when we did one, we got more responses like, Holy Shit, 308 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.000 let's do more book content. And I think the cool part that we got 309 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.319 to feel was because he already had that audience built up on social media, 310 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.279 we're able to get like feedback on those ideas quickly. And when I talk 311 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:53.880 about getting feedback on ideas, I don't mean that you're like going to social 312 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.880 media and like asking necessary like Hey, what should I do a podcast on? 313 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:03.200 But when he shared like his daily routine and how he you know, 314 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.440 he does X, Y Z, he got a bunch of more messages and 315 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:10.920 than usual. Okay, can we take that into and make it into something 316 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.119 more, and I think that's like this. The really powerful part about social 317 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.119 media is that you can, you can message test really quickly without having to 318 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:22.319 spend a dollar and without even have to do it like consciously and you kind 319 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.799 of get direct feedback from your dream customers and then you can use that as 320 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.880 a indicator to go and create other things. And so then we did the 321 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:34.119 podcast. We turned twitter into a podcast basically, and then from seeking wisdom 322 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.720 our podcast, we did, however, many episodes of that we could see 323 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.240 the different topics that were popular and look at look at it on a bigger 324 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.880 scale. And so then we wanted to do an event. And so when 325 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.279 we went to do the event, not that it was perfect, but we 326 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.799 had a better sense of like what things people would be interested in because we'd 327 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.519 already even publishing on these on these other channels, and we built smaller audiences 328 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.680 on other channels. And so I'd much rather be in that situation then like 329 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.079 here's an ex budget for event, figure out what to program the event and 330 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.359 hope it hope that it works. Like I'm kind of betting on on like 331 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.480 things that we've already tested in some in some way, and I think a 332 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.559 lot of people just don't understand that it. It doesn't have to be some 333 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:18.119 like scientific test that you're doing. Like content creation is ultimately about. It's 334 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.759 a little art in science and you got to be able to be there, 335 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.440 and it's why I talk about you can't just outsource social media to your to 336 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.839 the intern is, because you have to be there, like in the comments 337 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:33.000 in your inbox, feeling it lit, hearing the podcast reviews, seeing what 338 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.279 people are saying. That's when everything clicks. I talked to a CEO last 339 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.359 week who's a super analytical CEO, and he's like, I've been doing our 340 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:42.799 podcast for sixty seven episodes. I couldn't tell you, Roy, but every 341 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.720 day he's like, we can never stop doing this podcast because every week I'm 342 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.599 getting an email, I'm getting an Intro, and so he's someone who, 343 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.960 like typically, would have normally analyze the hell out of that podcast. He's 344 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.119 like no, I just I know that it's working because I'm doing it, 345 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.079 I'm on social media, I'm seeing the inbound stuff that's coming back from it. 346 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.319 I think that's why it's such a important part that, like, you're 347 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:06.279 actually there. It's not the the the advice in this book is not like 348 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.359 hey, write a bunch of content, schedule and buffer and like you will 349 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.279 build a brand. That's not that's not what it is. You have to 350 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:17.079 be there for the whole part. Hey, everybody Olivia here. As a 351 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.559 member of the sweet fish sales team. I wanted to take a second and 352 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:26.440 share something that makes us insanely more efficient. Our team uses lead Iq. 353 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.279 So for those of you who are in sales or sales ups, let me 354 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:34.359 give you some context. You know how long gathering contact data can take so 355 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.720 long, and with lead Iq, what once took us four hours to do 356 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:44.440 now takes us just one. That is seventy five percent more efficient. We 357 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:49.000 are so much quicker withoutbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than 358 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.599 before. I suggest you guys check it out as well. You can find 359 00:22:52.640 --> 00:23:00.759 them at lead iqcom. That's L EA D iqcom. Already, let's jump 360 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.640 back into the show. It's resonance. That's the word that kept just going 361 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.359 off in my head while you're saying that, because when you're actually in the 362 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:12.240 space, you know what's resonating with other people. And then, I mean 363 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:17.240 any good marketer, but any any empathetic, normal human, but I'm right, 364 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:19.200 just starts to see, oh, like this is, this is a 365 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.519 conversation that resonates with people, and let's go further down this road together and 366 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.960 we can create even more helpful content. What do you think, from the 367 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.519 days of seeking wisdom, was the biggest lesson you learned? Dave, there 368 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.839 are many. Just give me like the first one that comes to mind. 369 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:41.319 I think the power of authenticity in marketing and the power of nondirect mart it's 370 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:47.240 really like the power of nondirect marketing channels when you do them right, if 371 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.240 I can explain that. What I mean is like, if we set out 372 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:53.680 to start a podcast that was going to fuel our first a hundred sales, 373 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:00.759 drift sales like it would have failed. It wouldn't have because what with strategy 374 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.319 you'd have to take to do that would not help you actually attract any customers 375 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.079 or be interesting. But it was because it was like this, this thing 376 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.559 was completely separate. It was like the CEO wanted to do a podcast, 377 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.200 so we're doing a podcast. Nobody's spreadsheeting this, and that's why it was 378 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.799 good, because it was never like we got this many at downloads last week 379 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:23.319 and so we need to do this. It was like we had a great 380 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:30.039 topic, we had chemistry, we had engaged listeners and we did it because 381 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.920 it was interesting content and we enjoyed doing it, and that worked to by 382 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.960 the way, these people happen to be associated with this company, drift. 383 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.400 When we go to sell something later there are going to going to know, 384 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:44.559 like and trust us. And so the hard part about, like writing about 385 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.559 social media and content is that a lot of people take this advice and they 386 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.759 just like what you say matters and the strategy used to create that content matters. 387 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:52.680 And so it's not like, yeah, if you, Hey, you, 388 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.240 if you're just promoting your own webinars a bunch on your podcast and you're 389 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:00.559 wondering why nobody's listening and you're not getting the same reaction that seeking wisdom did, 390 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.559 that I could tell you why. Wrong. Heart wrong, why wrong 391 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.319 starting place? I mean it is, it's non transferable, right like that's 392 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.079 those are things that resonate at a deeper level that. Yeah, we all 393 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:17.240 know podcasts or content we've consumed. That's like in the Bob Space. That 394 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:21.880 clearly had a motive behind it to get just get the sale and you're not 395 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:23.680 going to engage with it. I've been there, I've done that, I 396 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:27.359 do that and that's okay. But I think like what actually works to if 397 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:32.920 you really want to grow something, is is to separate those things and it 398 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:34.440 just gets hard because you get inside of a company and you got all these 399 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:40.359 competing priorities and and this and that. But I also think like people don't 400 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:41.880 take a step back and say, like, hold on, which of the 401 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.400 let's use podcasting acts as an example, like which of the pot? Like 402 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.160 I got a lot of things going on. which in the podcast do I 403 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:53.519 actually listen to? Okay, these two, and why? And I think 404 00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.680 so often we just like get in this like cycle, just like creating more 405 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.599 stuff, verse thinking about the Hook, and it seems still to be like 406 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.640 on a marketing pockets and be like think about the hook. But why? 407 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:10.359 Why is somebody actually going to take an hour out of their day and listen 408 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:15.000 to like the B toob growth podcast or whatever? I think when we created 409 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.319 seeking wisdom, it was like very selfish. Is Like we're helping people get 410 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.240 smarter, get better, and we're having fun doing it, and I think 411 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.920 that's what creates an actual connection. And so, whether you sell to finance 412 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:32.039 or HR or sales or cyber security or whatever, it's like before like think 413 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:36.720 about what if you had a dream budget and dream dream budget, Dream Team, 414 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:41.519 dream whatever, and the mission was like create the number one thing for 415 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.759 these people. What would you create and how would you do it? Because 416 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.160 it wouldn't be the like. Well, every third episode we're actually going to 417 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.559 sprinkle in a product demo because a sales team would really like that. Really, 418 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.440 that's not your favorite podcast? That sounds like mine. How about after 419 00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:00.519 the ten episode, we can't we get email address is from all these listeners 420 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.599 and can we just sell to to like we could just put them, you 421 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.319 know, send them a invite to next webinar. And I'm not mocking, 422 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.640 like I've done all those things. And sometimes you do. Hey, you 423 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.480 do act like you want to keep your job, you want to get promoted. 424 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:15.359 I like I struggle with some. Sometimes marketing advice becomes a little bit 425 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.680 like holier than now. It's like, look, I want to drive business 426 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:23.240 results and revenue from marketing, but I'm talking about like it's not surprising that 427 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:29.319 most of these things don't take off for companies when they're rooted in that right 428 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.680 and that this is a different strategy of that can work, but it's just 429 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.200 deeper in the funnel and it's a different, different place, different different time, 430 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.200 different place. HMM. I want to go back to something you said 431 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.119 earlier before we move on, because you mentioned twitter and Linkedin as good starting 432 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:47.680 places, simply because it's written. Word. I would have imagined any sort 433 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:52.519 of approach like this where a founder is extremely public like that. I mean 434 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.759 even being on a podcast, if it's just audio, like maybe more founders 435 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.720 would be into that, but it could feel like it's a certain personality type 436 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.440 thing. But you would say even on twitter and Linkedin, like get to 437 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.759 publishing, even if it's just written and it's not video, like. You 438 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.599 would encourage that, right. Have you ever seen Darmesh from hup spot? 439 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.960 HMM, you know he is. Yeah, I do. He will tell 440 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.960 you and everything. He's like, I'm the most introverted person ever. That 441 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:22.599 guy is prolific on social media. Yep, and that's one. The other 442 00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.599 thing is, like, if you're the founder of this company, you're probably, 443 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.880 I would hope, communicating a lot internally, the a email, via 444 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.160 slack, via Wiki va or whatever, writing to investors, like you are. 445 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:37.440 You are doing that in some form, and so sure you don't have 446 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.799 to be like you and me and be comfortable on camera and doing a podcast, 447 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.079 but I would say that you're probably, because I'm also not talking about 448 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.359 like writing fiction novels, right, like I'm saying, like take, what 449 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.519 I'm saying is like the stuff that you're already writing about most of the time 450 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.039 is going to be interesting at help and be helpful to build your credibility and 451 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:03.079 trust as a brand. Okay, so, if you were starting from scratch 452 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.200 right now, what would you prioritize? What would be the questions that you're 453 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.519 asking yourself, like Dave Care Heart one point, oh, all over again. 454 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.759 What what comes to mind? If this is actually right now, right 455 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:21.200 now, I would prioritize tick tock a hundred percent, especially in B tob 456 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:23.400 and if I had more time right now, I would do it. But 457 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:29.759 I'm I think it's a perfect example of like what content or people obsessed with 458 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.480 and really interested in, and what content is like most of the music that 459 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:36.799 people are listening today is is like debuting on Tick Tock. Like what? 460 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.319 What's The music that's popular right now? Is Popular because of tick tocks with 461 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:41.839 then, no, I don't need I'm not like, I'm not trying to 462 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.519 be like Gary V and, like, you know, explain how how important 463 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.319 tick tock is, but what I'm saying is, like I think it is 464 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.920 that and it's still nobody's using it in a be to be per in a 465 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.880 be to be context, and so like. If I was a be to 466 00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:59.200 be start up right now or something, I would, I think, first, 467 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.680 beyond my advice ice in the book, is like where the what platforms 468 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.559 can you be successful on? and to me that starts with, like, 469 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:10.240 what are the opportunities in my industry? And if nobody's doing it, could 470 00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:12.960 you build an audience faster there than on other channels? And then the second 471 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.039 order from there would be like, but what are my natural strengths and talents 472 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:22.599 and do I have the means to be successful, like on that channel, 473 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.200 right, and so like, if you have no budget, then like, 474 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:27.680 are you going to be able to spend five grand a month and have a 475 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:33.079 video producer like make make fifty videos for you and create tick tocks off? 476 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.039 Probably not. And so what? Where can you get the most amount of 477 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.200 feedback the fastest? And that that is why I say, like, you 478 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.880 know, twitter and Linkedin, because I think you can build up. The 479 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.799 barrier entry is so low that might take you a while to build up a 480 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:48.680 following, but like the distance between, like you signing up, you signing 481 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.759 up for twitter and writing your first tweet is probably much shorter than like you 482 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.880 come creating a company, Tick Tock, channel and like and creating your first 483 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.200 video. Yeah, most feedback fastest. I like that. Yeah, most 484 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:04.519 feedback fastest. That's the advantage in marketing. That's like the game. That's, 485 00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:08.279 to me, like the powerful thing about have about building audience and and 486 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.119 online marketing days, the quicker you can get feedback, you can understand what 487 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.839 to do and what and what not to do and what people interested in. 488 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.799 Well, as we start to wrap up, anything else you want to highlight 489 00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.880 from this strategy, any let kind of last words before before we close it 490 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.920 out here. No, close it out. I'm ready for whatever you want 491 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.000 to talk about. Close it out. All right. Well, beside checking 492 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.680 out the book, Dave, where should people stay connected to you? And, 493 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:34.160 yeah, give us, give us a rundown. People get the book 494 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.880 on Amazon. Some people they light's ridiculous. I they launch books and they 495 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.519 have like a hundred reviews on launch day and I should you still on the 496 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.480 review thing. I'm still on that. I love it. I love this 497 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.960 whole conversation. He's he's just been in his head about those reviews and in 498 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.079 book, the Second Book, I'm fine with how many I have. That's 499 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.039 not the issue. I'm just like I feel like I as a marketer. 500 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.279 The the marketer and me, was like I missed the key. I missed 501 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.079 a key ingredient before launched. Dang it, and I but that's okay. 502 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:06.720 It's kind of good to hear you say like, Oh, I missed something, 503 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.680 because I'm sure for other people like Oh, that's it's kind of Nice 504 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.200 to see you. It's into scen area. He can affert one. I 505 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.799 miss so many things because anybody that's actually work with me will know I am 506 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.319 the least like system process, like playbook, and like through launching the book. 507 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:28.079 I work with a company, obviously to like create the book part of 508 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.920 it, because I'm not a logistics expert and all that. But like they 509 00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:34.039 were really kept checking in, like hey, you know, what's your marketing 510 00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:36.000 strategy for this going to be by B Blah, and I was like, 511 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.119 I am going to send out a couple of emails about it, like leading 512 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:42.759 up to the book, and if I get out of any other ideas, 513 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.079 like I might just do them. Like I'm very like spontaneous and so like 514 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:50.319 I bought some billboards one time and then like I went for like four weeks 515 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.319 without talking about the book and then I was like, Oh, shoot, 516 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.079 book lunch is coming up, I should talk about it more. So I 517 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:59.079 wish I was like that, that planned out and had like this like spreadget 518 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.880 of all this stuff that I but I don't and I'm just lucky that we've 519 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:06.519 we've got here. So we've gotten here so far. Yeah, I I 520 00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:08.920 love when people sort of not I mean, obviously it's more than this, 521 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:14.319 but like stumbling into something is a big part of marketing, right like this. 522 00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.640 That's what you were just saying about seeking like seeing wisdom. Like that 523 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:22.039 whole podcast is you stumbling into an opportunity with conversation that then turns into something 524 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.680 more and then you just see it and go for it. So that's awesome 525 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:28.799 and I love it. But it also speaks to like it also speaks like 526 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.640 what we talked about in the book. Like I've built up a small audience 527 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.799 and that's the people that I wrote the book for and I figured that they 528 00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:37.200 would buy the book. And so if those people are already on my email 529 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.279 list, the people that I want to buy the book are the ones on 530 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:43.880 my email list. I I don't I don't care about selling x million copies 531 00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:45.480 of the book. Like I wanted to create a book for the people that 532 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:50.039 for those people, and I didn't send send them an email about it, 533 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.599 like I wish. I wish there's some crazy like marketing chatty behind it, 534 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.839 but there's not. Well, you have it, I think, in the 535 00:33:54.839 --> 00:34:00.119 correct order and because, I mean I also I talked to smath Ors, 536 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.960 I talked to a lot of different people, but people come out with books 537 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.480 in order to, Oh my God, things that they feel like are attached 538 00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:10.559 versus. What I would commend you on is when you do in this order, 539 00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.719 where it's like Hey, I'm got this thing that I've already done and 540 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:19.119 I know I have some followers who would really benefit from this additional resource. 541 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.280 It changes the mindset and again, it keeps your why pure, and that's 542 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.599 the same with a podcast world, where it's like, if you want to 543 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:30.440 successfully focus on your content, then can't have it out of order. So 544 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.280 we're like reinforcing our whole conversation. Well, yeah, and like what's cooled, 545 00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:37.920 like yeah, which you just broke down and says like why we've connected 546 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.679 on this. It like that says that's really what the book is about. 547 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.239 Hmm, is like you doing that, and so, like whatever I want 548 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.039 to do, if I want to build a golf company and sell golf products 549 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.599 in the future, I think my belief at least, is that the best 550 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.119 way to do that would be like first build an audience, and so I'm 551 00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:57.960 going to I would start with content and like two years before I'd have the 552 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:00.800 the podcast and everything. And so, yeah, which is so funny, 553 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.800 you mentioned that some someone Dm to me in you know, whatever you get 554 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:07.519 in your twitter GM's, and someone DM knew is like, I have a 555 00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.239 question about you know, how much money do you make off this book? 556 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:13.800 And I was like, first of all, the happens all the time, 557 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:16.440 nothing new. Yeah, hell, Hey, what's your how do you parent 558 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.800 your second child, like anyway or whatever? That would there. What's your 559 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:25.280 social sucreer number? But this this person said, I how much money did 560 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.519 you make off the book? And he wasn't asking for a dollar around. 561 00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:30.239 He just has like Oh, it's a hundred percent. I've self publishing it, 562 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.679 so it's so it's mine. He's like awesome, yeah, I'm just 563 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:36.400 you know, I'm really thinking about book building as like a revenue strategy and 564 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:38.199 I was like, well, look, if you want to make money, 565 00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:43.559 don't. Don't write a book like the book. Would not be the strategy 566 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.920 to do it. I was like the only reason why I was able to 567 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:50.280 sell books, and I don't even care if I sell books beyond this point, 568 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:52.239 like I've sold a bunch of books already to that existing audience. That's 569 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.800 why I wrote the book. And I was like, you know, focus 570 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:59.920 on building an audience. Like the thing that allowed me to have the book 571 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.960 to sell was building an audience. This is also a business book. This 572 00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.639 is also business book. Would that? Should that? Would that be the 573 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.199 strategy if you were an amazing writer and you were writing a novel or some 574 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.840 fiction book? No, it's it's different. But but I think in this 575 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.119 context, building the the audience first, and I'd even talked about in the 576 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.400 book how much I was able to like pressure test some of the ideas, 577 00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.960 including the title, including the you know, Tim Ferris talked about like early 578 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.480 and like the four hour work week, where he used to use like early 579 00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.039 days of like add words when it was like really easy to tell he would. 580 00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:37.159 He used add words like test titles of his books. MMM, and 581 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.039 what's even cooler about that now is like now tim has a humongous audience. 582 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.360 He can basically fool prove any idea he wants to do in the future by 583 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.000 just learning through the community, and I did that in a very, very 584 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.079 small way with this book and I think it's just a really powerful thing. 585 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.400 It's not go spend a million dollars on ads to do it. It requires 586 00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:59.880 like a story and creativity, and that's the stuff that I love. The 587 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.159 tangents are my favorite part of podcasting, man. So I'm glad we went 588 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.760 there here at the end because I think it sums up so much of the 589 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.840 heart of what we're driving at, and so I'll just say again for people, 590 00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.559 name of the book, founder, brand, turn your story into your 591 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:16.840 competitive advantage. You can go grab it on Amazon. Dave Garrehart, thank 592 00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:21.119 you for being on BB growth. Yeah, thanks, Benjie. It's fun. 593 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.960 You're a good host and I've enjoyed talking you whereas having conversations like this. 594 00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:28.639 So if you haven't subscribed to show you can do that. Stay connected 595 00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:30.519 to us. I would love to hear from you have conversations on business and 596 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:36.199 marketing and life over on Linkedin and keep doing work that matters. Will be 597 00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:51.920 back real soon with another episode. For BB marketing leaders, it can sometimes 598 00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:53.719 feel like you're on an island. Now more than ever, it's important for 599 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:59.599 us to be connected with our peers enter marketing squad. It's the sweet fish 600 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.880 take on community and it offers be to be marketing leaders an opportunity to share 601 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.519 and grow. Learn more by reaching out to our community manager, Diana Mitchell 602 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:15.440 at Diana dot Mitchell at sweet fish Mediacom