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Sept. 22, 2022

What Happened to Drift? | Echo Chamber

Welcome to The Echo Chamber. Quick riffs and hot takes from around B2B Marketing. 
On today's show the guys discuss Drift's disappearance across LinkedIn and hypothesize what may have happened.  
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B2B Growth
Welcome to The Echo Chamber. Quick riffs and hot takes from around B2B Marketing. 
On today's show the guys discuss Drift's disappearance across LinkedIn and hypothesize what may have happened.  
Sponsors:
+ Marketing Brew does the hard work for you, dropping a quick-to-read, free newsletter in your inbox every weekday. Covering essential topics from influencers and advertising to social media & more, Marketing Brew never misses a beat. Check it out now, click here.  
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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.719 Welcome back to another episode of the Echo Chamber here on B two B growth. 3 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:25.519 I'm joined today by our director of audience growth, Dan Sanchez, our 4 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:29.120 head of community Benji Block. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder 5 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:34.079 of sweet fish and today we are talking about a brand that was once the 6 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:39.000 darling of B two B marketing, really b two be in general. I 7 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:48.920 think the brand is drift, and back in tween this was the only brand 8 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.240 that it seemed like a B Two b marketer could talk about. I mean 9 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:58.960 it was just the apple of everyone's eye and then all of a sudden one 10 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:03.959 person left drift and it just seemed as though nobody was talking about drift anymore. 11 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:10.000 Uh. And so we we're obviously talking about Davi gearhart and I want 12 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.200 to talk about what happened here. Is as I've been thinking about the Echo 13 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:17.719 Chamber series and, you know, talking about things that B two B marketers 14 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:22.799 are talking about on the Internet. I've heard podcast episodes about this or bring 15 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.959 it up in conversations with people. What the heck happened to drift? Dan, 16 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.519 you've got some thoughts here as we were talking about this, getting ready 17 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:36.799 to to hit record. What's your take on this thing that happened where this 18 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.920 brand was on the tip of everyone's tongue and now, all of a sudden, 19 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.280 regardless of a great exit, nobody seems to be talking about him? 20 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:49.000 I haven't heard them mention on Linkedin for a long time, since David Gearhart 21 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.319 actually went back to work as their chief brand officer or something like that. 22 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.480 That was the last time I heard drift mentioned. It had been a while 23 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.879 before that. Um of course he's not working there anymore. He's doing his 24 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.840 full time thing and honestly, I feel like this happens a lot with really 25 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:07.840 big tech companies that are like accelerating that fast. It takes so much momentum 26 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:12.159 for a rocket ship to get to orbit, to just leave the gravitational poll 27 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:14.919 that sucks it back down. I feel like it's the same with startups. 28 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.120 That's why they talk about startups launching and use the rocketship analogy a lot, 29 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:21.520 because it's true. It just takes so much momentum to get to the point 30 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.199 where you know what you're probably gonna be okay without going is fast right. 31 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:28.800 So it seems like there's a lot of hipe, pipe, pipe, pipe, 32 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.919 pipe, and things are growing, things are getting and then you get 33 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.960 acquired or you go public and it just kind of goes into cruise control for 34 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.199 a while. You're still growing. I think the company is actually doing I'm 35 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.120 sure they're doing quite well. I'm sure it's making tons of cash, but 36 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.400 it doesn't need as much hype to do the growth. In fact, it 37 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:49.759 probably needs to calm it down a little bit because that kind of growth can 38 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.919 be a little dangerous sometimes in big companies like to play it safe. Slow 39 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:58.479 and steady. Five to ten percent of growth a year is a lot of 40 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.120 growth, but nothing that's gonna, like, cause any damage. You know, 41 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:06.240 they're much more about losing their they care way more about losing what they 42 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:10.560 have versus gaining what they have. It's a safety game now that you're a 43 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.439 big company, and that's where drift is now. It's a big company now. 44 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:19.080 Yeah, I mean it's September of one. It looks like Vista Vista 45 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.840 Equity Partners, but I think a majority, I don't know if it's a 46 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:27.360 majority or minority stake. I think it was a majority steak and that put 47 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.400 them at over a billion dollar valuation, which is wild to me that what 48 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:38.599 was what was once known as a chatbot platform is now getting acquired at a 49 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:43.000 billion dollar valuation. I don't know exactly the details on that deal, but 50 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.080 I do think it's interesting, though. The thing that I want to point 51 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.360 to here is something that we preach a lot on B two B growth, 52 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:58.919 the power of activating your employees personal brands. And when Dave gearhart started at 53 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:02.159 drift, I think he had on a podcast before that was like a local 54 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:09.439 Boston podcast, and he had his and his CEO, a drift, D 55 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:13.000 C, who is now, I think, chairman or I don't even think 56 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.959 he's the CEO anymore. They just announced a new CEO maybe four or five 57 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:23.439 months ago. But this dynamic between David cancel and Dave Gearhart, D C 58 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:28.279 and D G, the way they positioned that relationship, I thought was brilliant, 59 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:33.079 just kind of this like wise sage founder who had been through multiple exits. 60 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:36.920 I think DC had sold a company to hub spot prior to that and 61 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.759 I think he'd had a couple of exits even before that. So he was 62 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:46.240 this this wise sage person investing in this young buck, this hungry, you 63 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:51.600 know, marketer, Dave Gearhart, and so their show seeking wisdom really fleshed 64 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:57.920 out that relationship and I remember being obsessed with that show and listening to it 65 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.639 going this is so good. It was there talking about timeless wisdom. It 66 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:05.399 wasn't specific marketing things. It was a little bit higher level than that, 67 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:10.279 but the banter between the two of them, the way they discussed a topic, 68 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.279 I just thought it was incredible. It seemed like you were genuinely a 69 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:19.879 fly on the wall of two really smart people's conversations and I loved it and 70 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:27.480 I think through that podcast, combined with D G's ability to know every single 71 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.920 month. I've heard him now talk about this. I think I heard him 72 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.040 talk about it on Chris Walker's show the other day. He was talking about 73 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:36.319 how every month they would come up with like a marketing moment and they would 74 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:41.800 figure out, like what splash are we going to make this month, and 75 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:46.680 it was either like hey, we're we're going to dream force this month and 76 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:51.360 so let's make a big deal about how we are organizing a workout morning, 77 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.639 like we're organizing a workout the morning of like the second day of the conference, 78 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.879 and so we're just gonna make a huge deal about how hey like, 79 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:01.519 you can work out by yourself or you can come work out with drift, 80 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.920 and it was just I think, I don't know that they had to pay 81 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.319 anything to do it. They didn't have to, you know, spend the 82 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.079 hundred thousand dollars for a booth that you have to typically spend a dream force. 83 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.360 They probably did that also. I don't know because I wasn't there, 84 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:19.879 but I just remember everybody losing their minds about drift sponsoring a workout and I 85 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:25.920 was like that's that's clever, like that's an interesting way to engage your target 86 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:29.759 buyers at a conference that you know everybody's gonna be at, everybody's gonna be 87 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.759 talking about, and that he would just do that every single month and it 88 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:35.839 was creative and it was different and it wasn't the same old stuff. It 89 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:40.439 wasn't like they figured out that webinars worked and they just beat webinars to death. 90 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:46.000 They were trying new, fresh creative things month after month after month, 91 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.879 and because of that Dave grew an incredibly massive personal brand. I think he's 92 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:54.959 got well over a hundred thousand followers on linkedin now, probably closer to a 93 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.560 hundred forty thousand followers on Linkedin. When we did our original research we asked 94 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.160 who is the marketer that's influencing you the most? Dave Gerhart, I think 95 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:08.480 it was Dave Gerhart. Seth Goden and Chris Walker were kind of at the 96 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.839 tippity top of the list. So Dave gearhart built an incredible brand for himself. 97 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:16.279 Segue that really intelligent way. I think in the building D G MG, 98 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.360 which is now exit five, a community for B two B marketers and 99 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.879 if the I mean I'm looking at the numbers, he charges ten bucks a 100 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:27.399 month to be a part of that community. I think he's got three thousand, 101 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.480 over three thousand people. I mean that's a's a great way to make 102 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.120 thirty grand a month. Plus the advisor positions that he now has. I 103 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.600 think he's advising Alice and a few other brands, so those are probably ten 104 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.839 thousand dollar month positions. Yeah, metadata some of some of the best Bob 105 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.000 Brands in the game right now. Not Surprising that they're being advised by Dave 106 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.120 Gerhart, kind of the King of brand. I did think it was interesting. 107 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:53.879 I think Dan you mentioned like he went back to drift for a hot 108 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:58.079 second and he was their chief brand officer. I don't know what exactly went 109 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:01.439 down there. I would imagine when you're personal brand is netting you fifties, 110 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.279 sixties seventy grand a month, it's probably pretty tough to go back to being 111 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.199 an employee somewhere, especially, you know, drift, being at a different 112 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.199 season of the season of growth. So I don't know the details of what 113 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:20.319 happened there. B Two B growth will be right back. There are a 114 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.759 lot of questions on marketers minds right now, and analyzing the latest trends can 115 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.879 be a full time job in itself. Can an a R filter really improved 116 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.960 brand awareness? Why are streaming ads so loud? What do viewers really think 117 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.519 about shoppable ads? Marketing Group does the hard work for you, dropping a 118 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.080 quick to read free newsletter in your inbox every weekday, covering essential topics, 119 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:48.759 from influencers and advertising to social media and more. Marketing Group never misses a 120 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.200 beat. Get The answers you've been looking for, along with the ones you 121 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.120 haven't even thought of yet upgrade your game alongside a growing community of over two 122 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.879 hundred and sixty five thousand and marketing professionals. Check it out by clicking the 123 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:09.720 link in our show notes right now. It's probably pretty tough to go back 124 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.600 to being an employee somewhere, especially, you know, drift being at a 125 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.679 different season of the season of growth. So I don't know the details of 126 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.799 what happened there. That's a big part of it and it's kind of like 127 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.320 the seasons of growth to me, because Dave's still living in. He's got 128 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.919 all these new marketing ideas, but he's still living off of seeking wisdom in 129 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.799 some ways, because the book founder brand just came out like last year and 130 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:37.480 he's he's giving the playbook away for what they did then and that is also 131 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.639 informed what he's doing with exit five. So in my mind, like you 132 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:46.840 just have seasons as this thing scales. They were creating the category of conversational 133 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:52.879 marketing. They had a conference, like hyper growth conference. They were doing 134 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:58.039 a lot of things then that worked really well and then it continued to evolve 135 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.799 or change, I would say, where it's like it seems like it's just 136 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:05.600 much less of a public approach and I don't know like, because we're very 137 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.879 public by nature as well. We're looking on linkedin like where's drift now, 138 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.600 and they like it seems like there was just a strategy shift where it's like, 139 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:16.399 okay, Dave would have built it this way and now whoever's like got 140 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.120 the reins is is not doing it the same way. I like, I 141 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.159 could be missing something, but that's where I see it. It's like if 142 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.519 you're getting a billion dollar valuation and you're able to do that, there's other 143 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.840 good things happening, but it's not the things that we're working four years ago, 144 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.320 three years ago, two years ago for you. So yeah, it's 145 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.960 fascinating to me. I wonder if if I was in this game, you 146 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:45.919 know, back when salesforce was on its rise and you know the big logo 147 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.039 of like what was it? Um Uh, not software or soft the anti 148 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.639 software logo, anti software. They were villainizing software because they were really advocating 149 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.879 for everything being in the cloud. I wasn't in the game back then. 150 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.639 I don't know when salesforce started. I think it was in the early two 151 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.679 thousand's. I was still like a freshman in high school. But I wonder 152 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:07.919 if I would have, if I would have thought the same thing, like 153 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.919 Oh, what happened to salesforce? Well, salesforce is a freaking behemoth. 154 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:15.679 I don't ever see salesforce talked about on Linkedin. I don't really see people 155 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.279 on twitter talking about salesforce. Doesn't mean that salesforces and and exceptionally successful. 156 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:26.320 When we ask what brand do you have the most affinity towards, everyone is 157 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.440 saying salesforce. That is like it is still the top answer. And then 158 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:33.799 most of them are like, it's probably because I used it the longest. 159 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.879 They keep adding features and while there's been some drift from their original but like, 160 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.519 people love salesforce. They absolutely love salesforce. They've built a strong community. 161 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:50.200 That's wild to me because me as a millennial, my millennial kind of 162 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.120 uh, I don't know. I look at salesforce and I see it as 163 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.200 this like the eight hundred pound guerrilla that is super expensive and you've got to 164 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.759 hire a six figure consultant to come in and even show you how how it 165 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:07.159 freaking works because it's so complex and it can do so many different things. 166 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.320 So, I mean we're a hubspot shop here. Hubspot just feels like it's 167 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.600 more user friendly and like. But I've honestly, I've only used how to 168 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:16.480 use sales source one time and it was that a nonprofit that I worked out 169 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.840 several years ago and it was just the most complicated thing I've ever tried to 170 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.279 use, and I'm relatively savvy when it comes to figuring out the how the 171 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:31.559 Internet works. And Uh, I could not, I could not make that 172 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.080 tool do what I what I wanted it to do. But anyway, all 173 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.120 that to say, I wonder if that's how we're gonna be talking about drift 174 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:39.799 as they can, you know, probably continue to grow. I mean this 175 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:45.960 equity groups not valuing the company and a billion dollars with their investment if they 176 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.720 don't have plans to continue to grow this thing. So so it's fun to 177 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:54.320 talk about right like what what really worked for them to get over that Hump 178 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.399 and to create the kind of momentum that a brand needs to have that moment 179 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.840 in the sun to create the customer base that can allow you to UN build 180 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.200 an enduring company. That's something that most companies will never be able to do. 181 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.039 I mean, we're literally talking about drift next to salesforce, a giant 182 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.919 in our space. So I think what they pulled off is wild. Maybe 183 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.240 one day we'll be able to do something close to that with sweet fish, 184 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.639 I would hope. But yeah, any, any closing thoughts as we wind 185 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.480 this down. Dan or Dan or Benji, I think for most of the 186 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.080 people listening are probably working in B two B companies that are in the scale 187 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:33.159 up stage right or maybe just starting, but most of them are probably in 188 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.919 the we've had product market fit and they're trying to do what drift did, 189 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:39.000 which is what drift is known for. Is what they did in their scale 190 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.039 up stage. They had product market fit and it was about creating enough brand 191 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:48.759 affinity that it could scale and have great word of mouth going on, not 192 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:50.559 just from the marketing but of course the product. I don't know, it's 193 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.039 all of our aspirations. We all want to be able to replicate what they 194 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.879 did and it's wicked hard, but it's a good playbook to look at. 195 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.399 Yep, well said. Awesome. Alright. Well, if you want to 196 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.960 hear more of these echo chamber episodes, reach out to Dan Bingi or myself 197 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.720 on Linkedin. We would love to hear from you your feedback. Uh, 198 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.039 certainly informs the kind of content we're trying to create here on B two B 199 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.240 growth as we try to become the go to media property for B two B 200 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.360 marketers. UH, make sure to leave a rating wherever you're listening to the 201 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.720 show, whether spotify, apple, podcast tap the number of stars you think 202 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:31.120 the show deserves. We love you a ton and we'll talk to you soon. 203 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:46.240 B Two B growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish 204 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.799 media. Here at sweet fish we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative 205 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.840 brands in the world, and we help them turn those podcasts into micro videos, 206 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.559 linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce 207 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:09.080 every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet fish media DOT com. MMMMM,