What Have You Done for Your Customer Today?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah. 2 00:00:05.540 --> 00:00:09.790 Hi everyone, welcome back to be to be growth. My name is Olivia Hurley and 3 00:00:09.790 --> 00:00:14.120 today I'm joined by Gizmos Bay, the Global Marketing Director. Integrated 4 00:00:14.120 --> 00:00:18.770 Marketing at Abbott is um how are you doing? I'm great thanks Olivia. Thanks 5 00:00:18.770 --> 00:00:23.450 for having me. Of course. Well I'm super excited to talk to you just 6 00:00:23.450 --> 00:00:28.780 starting out here from your perspective. I'd love to know what are the 7 00:00:28.780 --> 00:00:34.080 differences between and similarities between B two B which we talk about 8 00:00:34.080 --> 00:00:39.910 here on this podcast and B to C. Marketing. Yeah. Great, great question. 9 00:00:39.910 --> 00:00:43.360 I don't think we have a lot of people who have experienced in in both 10 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:49.580 business models. I did have the opportunity to, I spent the first um I 11 00:00:49.590 --> 00:00:55.900 guess half of my career PNG and B to C. And then the last six years at Abbott 12 00:00:55.900 --> 00:01:01.270 has been more focused on B. T. V. So I am a big believer that there are more 13 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:05.890 similarities than differences. Of course there's nuances in terms of you 14 00:01:05.890 --> 00:01:10.620 know, the decision makers, the sale cycle in kind of the complexity of the 15 00:01:10.620 --> 00:01:15.990 business model. But when it comes to principles of good marketing, I think 16 00:01:15.990 --> 00:01:18.870 there are more similarities than differences, there should be more 17 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:23.480 similarities than differences. If we kind of shift the focus from, you know, 18 00:01:23.490 --> 00:01:28.600 a shiny tool is chinese channel chinese object to actually what really matters 19 00:01:28.600 --> 00:01:32.530 at the end of today for your target audience and make sure we're doing 20 00:01:32.530 --> 00:01:36.170 things right from a strategy perspective, I think there are a lot of 21 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:41.660 commonalities actually between B two B and B to C. Marketing. Oh that's that's 22 00:01:41.660 --> 00:01:44.360 fascinating. It's actually something that, you know, I've been so immersed 23 00:01:44.360 --> 00:01:49.380 to be to be that I haven't necessarily pulled my head out and said, what are 24 00:01:49.380 --> 00:01:52.520 the similarities and differences? That's actually really just helpful for 25 00:01:52.520 --> 00:01:56.170 me and my education. So you were talking about how there's just a lot of 26 00:01:56.180 --> 00:02:00.490 overlap, but what are some of the differences between the two that B two 27 00:02:00.490 --> 00:02:05.110 B marketers need to be watchful for sure. I think, you know, if you kind of 28 00:02:05.110 --> 00:02:08.320 obviously, I don't even want to generalize B two B, obviously there's 29 00:02:08.320 --> 00:02:11.700 different, very different industries within B two B. Um it's very different 30 00:02:11.700 --> 00:02:17.210 dynamics, but in general, kind of the total available market in B two B in 31 00:02:17.210 --> 00:02:22.080 terms of like, you know, the number of people that you have in your universe 32 00:02:22.090 --> 00:02:26.560 if you will. Uh in terms of the purchasers or, you know, decision 33 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:32.280 makers are a lot more limited in nature than B two C. I mean, just to put it in 34 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:37.060 perspective, cybertron Gillette, which obviously a multi billion dollar brands, 35 00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:41.350 huge market share. You know, more than half of the people, half of the men 36 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:44.960 around the world are using Gillette's, we're talking about like magnitudes of 37 00:02:45.040 --> 00:02:51.070 billions of people making plans, marketing plans to reach to billions of 38 00:02:51.070 --> 00:02:56.430 people versus right now, the space that I'm in, for instance, is interventional 39 00:02:56.430 --> 00:03:00.510 cardiology. The total available market globally because it's such a 40 00:03:00.510 --> 00:03:05.220 specialized, you know, industry in specialized category. Um the total 41 00:03:05.220 --> 00:03:09.320 available market is around 50,000. So all of a sudden now we see the dynamics 42 00:03:09.320 --> 00:03:13.610 change in terms of. Okay, so what is my total universe? Um you know, what do I 43 00:03:13.610 --> 00:03:17.640 need to do within that, who are the right segments? What do I need to do to 44 00:03:17.650 --> 00:03:20.870 reach out to those right people and then how do I take them through a 45 00:03:20.870 --> 00:03:25.660 journey to the purchase funnel? It doesn't necessarily happen quicker and 46 00:03:25.660 --> 00:03:31.660 need to be. But again, it's such a defined, measurable and finite number 47 00:03:31.660 --> 00:03:36.310 of people that gives you the opportunity to do different things from 48 00:03:36.310 --> 00:03:39.510 a customer relationship management perspective. You know, there's 49 00:03:39.510 --> 00:03:43.510 opportunities for you to kind of deepen that relationship. Focus on portfolio 50 00:03:43.510 --> 00:03:48.250 salaries was kind of increasing the penetration of like new products. So um 51 00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:51.700 there are definitely those differences. I think some of those obviously hold 52 00:03:51.700 --> 00:03:55.630 true um you know, for different industries as well, I mean there's some 53 00:03:55.640 --> 00:04:00.530 B two B relationship between like large CPG companies, consumer good companies 54 00:04:00.530 --> 00:04:04.780 and retailers, like, you know, PNG has a business relationship with wal mart 55 00:04:04.790 --> 00:04:10.060 in the nature of that relationship and the marketing plans are different than 56 00:04:10.060 --> 00:04:13.670 what we would do direct to consumer. Again, that's feelings of people versus 57 00:04:13.670 --> 00:04:17.350 B two B. You're talking about like one account, potentially multiple 58 00:04:17.350 --> 00:04:21.440 stakeholders and decision makers and you're kind of mapping out the strategy 59 00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:25.650 that's really customized um for that business to business relationships. So 60 00:04:25.660 --> 00:04:29.290 I hope that makes sense. I think the questions you're asking should be the 61 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:33.490 same, the answers might be slightly different in terms of how many people, 62 00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:37.500 what channels are they actually currently on? How do I get them engaged? 63 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:42.290 And what I have to say? Yeah, Oh my gosh, that was such a good rundown. I'm 64 00:04:42.290 --> 00:04:50.760 curious. So, B to C is about the product, Is that true for B two, B? 65 00:04:51.440 --> 00:04:55.310 Very much so, which I'm not sure it's the right thing. Product is important. 66 00:04:55.320 --> 00:04:58.540 Your value proposition is extremely important, which should be actually 67 00:04:58.540 --> 00:05:03.850 beyond what you are selling as a tool, as a as a gadget, if you will. But me 68 00:05:03.850 --> 00:05:08.280 to see a lot of the B2C companies, at least the consumer packaged goods 69 00:05:08.290 --> 00:05:14.150 industry, I would say is actually more focused on consumer needs. So, because 70 00:05:14.150 --> 00:05:18.070 they've been doing it for a very long time, obviously most of them um and it 71 00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:21.840 really all started North Star if you will for a lot of those companies and 72 00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:26.300 brands or consumers, So, you know, understanding consumers there need 73 00:05:26.300 --> 00:05:30.530 their unmet needs, their journeys, their personas, this significant amount 74 00:05:30.530 --> 00:05:34.120 of investment that goes into that to make sure you're really grounding 75 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:38.730 yourself on the consumer need, before you worried about, you know, your 76 00:05:38.740 --> 00:05:42.980 product specifications and attributes, you need to build into your next 77 00:05:42.980 --> 00:05:47.220 platform. So I think it needs to be world and again, I don't want to 78 00:05:47.220 --> 00:05:50.410 generalize that each company is doing it differently. Each industry is a 79 00:05:50.410 --> 00:05:54.070 little different if you're in a cutting edge, you know, industry where your, 80 00:05:54.080 --> 00:05:58.960 you know, driving innovation, you know, dynamics is just different than, you 81 00:05:58.960 --> 00:06:02.840 know, in an industry where there are a lot of comparable options, but we tend 82 00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:06.900 to fall in love with our products. Um indeed to be, it's really because we 83 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:11.440 have product managers in B two B, whereas, you know, CPG usually their 84 00:06:11.440 --> 00:06:16.440 brand managers, so they think about the experience that brand is providing the 85 00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:21.660 consumers that the brand is targeting. So I think there is definitely more 86 00:06:22.140 --> 00:06:27.920 Affinity with the product then the the end consumer and customer and B- two b. 87 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:33.070 That really needs to be questioned. Yeah, the the idea that maybe product 88 00:06:33.080 --> 00:06:37.930 is king and should influence a lot of the marketing strategy, that sounds 89 00:06:37.930 --> 00:06:43.240 like it's a misconception. It is, it is important. Again, I think product is 90 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:47.610 important, but the king, um, you know, it should really be consumers, the 91 00:06:47.610 --> 00:06:51.640 customer, that should be the North Star in terms of like why are we, who are my 92 00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:55.610 designing this product for at the end of today? Because if you start with 93 00:06:55.610 --> 00:07:00.690 that, what you are also going to avoid is potentially competing with other 94 00:07:00.690 --> 00:07:04.840 products that you might have in your own portfolio because we are so siloed 95 00:07:04.840 --> 00:07:08.640 in our own kind of product teams, you know, there's product a product, 96 00:07:08.650 --> 00:07:13.270 product, see between the same company structure, they all might be targeting 97 00:07:13.270 --> 00:07:17.580 the same consumer, the same customer at the end of today. But again, we are so 98 00:07:17.580 --> 00:07:22.560 incentivized to try to do the right thing for that product or that platform 99 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.050 versus the end consumer that we actually end up frustrating the 100 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:30.730 customer. You know, they don't get like val orchestrated experience, They might 101 00:07:30.730 --> 00:07:34.060 actually be getting conflicting information. It's such a destroying 102 00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:37.960 that experience from a consumer perspective, customer perspective. But 103 00:07:37.960 --> 00:07:42.480 if you start with that, that actually incentivizes the teams, you can still 104 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.900 have product teams, there's no problem with that. But that can incentivize the 105 00:07:45.900 --> 00:07:50.760 product teams to actually make decisions with the end customer in mind. 106 00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:57.010 Yeah. Tell me more about this idea of a great strategy coming from consumer 107 00:07:57.010 --> 00:08:01.740 insights rather than I guess product innovation. Yeah, there's there's 108 00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:05.300 definitely a lot of methodologies that are available out there in terms of 109 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:08.510 like, you know, how to incorporate those customer insights, you know, 110 00:08:08.510 --> 00:08:13.790 customer needs into your product roadmap. So there's some some companies 111 00:08:13.790 --> 00:08:18.070 are doing it well. There are some companies that are just focused on kind 112 00:08:18.070 --> 00:08:20.700 of, you know, what is going to be new and different versus my previous 113 00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:24.780 version. So it's very technically focused in terms of like, okay, these 114 00:08:24.780 --> 00:08:27.950 are my attributes. Currently, these are my attributes that I want to build 115 00:08:27.950 --> 00:08:31.750 tomorrow and then like kind of what is the, what is the road map to get there, 116 00:08:31.750 --> 00:08:37.210 but not really truly understanding the changes in customers lives, right? 117 00:08:37.210 --> 00:08:42.150 Because maybe that category is becoming irrelevant altogether. Maybe there's 118 00:08:42.150 --> 00:08:45.880 actually, you know, a new company that you really initially didn't consider in 119 00:08:45.880 --> 00:08:50.260 your competitive set, but now, you know, some of what they have to offer is 120 00:08:50.260 --> 00:08:55.100 actually solving for their needs, you know, what they're looking for. So it's, 121 00:08:55.110 --> 00:08:59.750 it's really important to kind of ground, you know, yourself and the in the 122 00:08:59.750 --> 00:09:04.680 customer insights initially and then work on your product strategy 123 00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:08.010 accordingly. Because if your product strategy is really solid, you should be 124 00:09:08.010 --> 00:09:11.510 able to answer these questions on life. Here's a landscape, what's happening in 125 00:09:11.510 --> 00:09:16.030 my consumers world. Here's specifically that needs and here's what we're 126 00:09:16.030 --> 00:09:20.300 anticipating or the course of like four or 5, 10 years depending on how long 127 00:09:20.300 --> 00:09:24.060 your roadmap is and then really position your product well in terms of 128 00:09:24.060 --> 00:09:28.600 how we are going to solve for those needs, what was the impetus in your 129 00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:32.860 belief in this type of strategy with leading with customer insights? What 130 00:09:32.860 --> 00:09:37.550 caused you to think that way? I guess, both in my career at PNG and Abbott, 131 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:44.800 the most insightful, the most memorable honestly and the most helpful time that 132 00:09:44.800 --> 00:09:48.150 I spent at the time that I spent with the customers themselves. Like, you 133 00:09:48.150 --> 00:09:52.640 know, it doesn't mean that like you're having a dinner conversation, it might 134 00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:57.320 be literally like doing in home visits, kind of trying to walk in the shoes of 135 00:09:57.330 --> 00:10:01.920 the consumer customer, like a day in the life, you know, I spent weeks in 136 00:10:01.920 --> 00:10:06.670 India actually like going into people's homes um and really watching them, you 137 00:10:06.670 --> 00:10:10.320 know, while they're shaving, which I know it sounds very interesting growth, 138 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:14.140 but it gives you a whole different perspective in terms of, okay, this is 139 00:10:14.140 --> 00:10:18.380 their life and this is very, you know, the kind of the role of my product in 140 00:10:18.380 --> 00:10:22.470 that, you know, in their life and kind of like in kind of hierarchy of needs 141 00:10:22.470 --> 00:10:27.460 very close and like what it does for them versus looking at the report and 142 00:10:27.460 --> 00:10:30.710 there's nothing wrong with, you know, a secondary research or looking at those 143 00:10:30.710 --> 00:10:34.040 reports to say, here's the percentage of consumption in each country. That's 144 00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:38.030 very, very helpful indeed. But walking in the shoes of the customer, the 145 00:10:38.030 --> 00:10:43.010 consumer really opens your eyes same in health care. So, you know, I spent days 146 00:10:43.010 --> 00:10:47.630 and you know, um surgical labs very obviously a lot of our products are 147 00:10:47.630 --> 00:10:51.590 used and you know, cardiovascular disease is important. Obviously it's 148 00:10:51.590 --> 00:10:56.370 devastating for patients and their caregivers. But you sit down with them 149 00:10:56.370 --> 00:11:00.790 and have them talk to you about like what happened, you know, how they first 150 00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:04.460 um you know, hear about this disease or have they ever heard about the disease 151 00:11:04.460 --> 00:11:08.280 actually? Harvard it diagnosed And what was that journey when they've gone 152 00:11:08.280 --> 00:11:12.330 through the treatment and what happened after the treatment kind of old ups and 153 00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:16.450 downs, they've gone through um you know, themselves and their caregivers, it 154 00:11:16.450 --> 00:11:21.070 gives you a whole another perspective as a marketer to find the right angle 155 00:11:21.070 --> 00:11:24.150 to even speak to them. I mean you might still use the same product. I mean 156 00:11:24.150 --> 00:11:27.450 maybe your product strategy is not going to change, but how you 157 00:11:27.450 --> 00:11:30.790 communicate with them and you know, how do you think about what's most 158 00:11:30.790 --> 00:11:35.580 important and as part of your kind of innovation um roadmap is changes 159 00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:39.500 completely when you actually try to spend that time and walk in the shoes 160 00:11:39.500 --> 00:11:44.060 of the customers. And again, I've done it in B two B. I've done it in B two C. 161 00:11:44.070 --> 00:11:48.930 And we we changed literally after those, you know, pieces of research. I don't 162 00:11:48.930 --> 00:11:51.680 even want to call them research. It's really like emergence. We used to call 163 00:11:51.680 --> 00:11:55.270 them emergence of PNG like you immerse your entire team into it. It was 164 00:11:55.270 --> 00:11:59.670 actually like research and development, supply chain marketing sales. They were 165 00:11:59.670 --> 00:12:04.420 like representatives from key cross functional um departments to just like 166 00:12:04.430 --> 00:12:09.270 take time, go out, immerse yourself in the life so if your target and consumer 167 00:12:09.270 --> 00:12:12.870 customer and then come back and tell me what you're trying to do that 168 00:12:12.870 --> 00:12:17.160 completely. You know, in in I mean, these are two major examples. I try to 169 00:12:17.160 --> 00:12:21.420 do it in all of our major launches for the campaigns and product launches. If 170 00:12:21.420 --> 00:12:24.450 it confirms what you're trying to do validates what you're trying to do. 171 00:12:24.450 --> 00:12:28.010 Amazing. That means you're actually good at kind of listening and like 172 00:12:28.020 --> 00:12:32.340 taking in these insights, ongoing basis, but most of the time given we're so 173 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:37.220 busy, like in our offices, like doing our own thing, um we don't have enough 174 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:41.370 time to actually like spending time with our end customers and consumers. 175 00:12:41.380 --> 00:12:45.040 Usually it actually changes the strategy all together. And I think it's 176 00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:49.330 actually an amazing thing to be able to do that before you even go down the 177 00:12:49.330 --> 00:12:53.810 path and develop a whole new products and launch it and to the after the fact 178 00:12:53.810 --> 00:12:57.100 and say, well why did it not work? I mean, it actually gives you the 179 00:12:57.100 --> 00:13:01.180 opportunity to course correct from the beginning and say, we we might need to 180 00:13:01.180 --> 00:13:05.260 question our strategy here. Maybe we're thinking about pricing um, you know, in 181 00:13:05.260 --> 00:13:08.300 the wrong way or maybe we just need to kind of think about positioning this 182 00:13:08.300 --> 00:13:12.310 altogether differently because of, you know, what you're experiencing and 183 00:13:12.310 --> 00:13:16.240 seeing um through these emotions. So it really gives you a whole new 184 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:24.150 perspective, what do people stand to lose by not using customer insights to 185 00:13:24.150 --> 00:13:27.840 guide the strategy. I would say ultimately it's really revenue and 186 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.410 growth. I mean it's everything and that's a whole another discussion 187 00:13:31.410 --> 00:13:34.290 probably in terms of like the role of marketing and, you know, kind of the 188 00:13:34.290 --> 00:13:39.390 skill sets we need to focus on and how do we actually keep the seat at the 189 00:13:39.390 --> 00:13:44.160 table. You need to be able to tie all your marketing activities and spend an 190 00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:48.650 investment to revenue at the end of today if you can't, if you can tie it 191 00:13:48.650 --> 00:13:52.690 to the revenue, if you cannot tie to a growth target then and whatever you're 192 00:13:52.690 --> 00:13:56.080 doing is gonna be obsolete in the short term, If it's not obsolete now, it's 193 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.910 going to be obsolete in the short term. So it really should be tied to revenue. 194 00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:04.080 Uh, in terms of like if you're not getting it right either, you're not 195 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:08.730 maximizing the potential growth, you're limiting the growth potential, you 196 00:14:08.730 --> 00:14:13.350 might end up losing revenue, which is worse. Obviously, the world can turn 197 00:14:13.350 --> 00:14:16.320 upside down in terms of, again, what's happening in the category, what your 198 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.620 competition is doing. So it really, I think the biggest risk is business 199 00:14:20.620 --> 00:14:27.330 results, are there scenarios where a B two B company wouldn't lead with 200 00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:30.870 customer insights and it wouldn't benefit them. Yeah, I think a lot of 201 00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:34.940 people think of the steve jobs called when this comes up, in terms of like, 202 00:14:34.940 --> 00:14:38.180 you know, consumers don't know what they need. I think he actually based 203 00:14:38.180 --> 00:14:42.520 that code off of Henry ford vehicle, um, and he said, if we asked them what they 204 00:14:42.520 --> 00:14:46.340 wanted, they would probably say a faster force. Of course, again, if 205 00:14:46.340 --> 00:14:49.420 you're that cutting edge, if you're steve jobs and you're coming up with 206 00:14:49.420 --> 00:14:54.070 the first ipad, you're taking a lot of risk if you haven't done any consumer 207 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.870 research and the truth is, he did, I mean, he truly understood kind of the 208 00:14:58.870 --> 00:15:03.050 dynamics of the market, even though they were the first movers right being 209 00:15:03.050 --> 00:15:08.890 a first mover in a whole new category gives you a whole new advantage that a 210 00:15:08.890 --> 00:15:13.320 lot of us don't have if you're working in one of those companies or spaces 211 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:17.690 where you're the only player first and only, and you're kind of defining the 212 00:15:17.690 --> 00:15:23.350 category. I think you have a little longer time to waste probably on things 213 00:15:23.350 --> 00:15:26.570 that might be wrong or sub optimal. Again, I'm not saying you're gonna fail 214 00:15:26.570 --> 00:15:31.490 immediately. Um, but you have a little more room to play in terms of like 215 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:35.730 experimenting and actually defining, um, you know, what needs to be done in the 216 00:15:35.730 --> 00:15:39.190 category. But I think it's really the exception to the rule when you put it 217 00:15:39.190 --> 00:15:42.880 in perspective. Um you know, a lot of times, I've never worked in a category 218 00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:48.140 where you were the first ever movers uh, into the space. A lot of the times, you 219 00:15:48.140 --> 00:15:51.810 know, you're, you're one of the leading ones. If you're lucky, you might be a 220 00:15:51.810 --> 00:15:56.500 follower brands, um, you're competing with multiple other comparable options. 221 00:15:56.510 --> 00:16:01.740 So it's really hard to argue that you can actually get away with not doing 222 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:06.210 any customer research. And I would say of course, if even in a very 223 00:16:06.210 --> 00:16:10.770 established category, the consumers are not technical experts. That's why I 224 00:16:10.770 --> 00:16:14.960 said, like, you know, doing market research is important, but absorbing 225 00:16:14.970 --> 00:16:19.330 consumers in their own worlds. It's even more important. It gives you a 226 00:16:19.330 --> 00:16:23.060 whole another perspective because they might not be able to articulate, you 227 00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:27.080 know, for you even like what type of razor they need next? They don't know, 228 00:16:27.090 --> 00:16:32.090 they can't, but they can tell you, you know how shaving makes them feel or 229 00:16:32.090 --> 00:16:36.260 like why is it important for them to actually show their sons how they're 230 00:16:36.260 --> 00:16:39.950 shaving when they first start shaving like those moments, what what it means 231 00:16:39.950 --> 00:16:44.260 for them, why they're choosing this trend brand compared to the others And 232 00:16:44.270 --> 00:16:49.550 you know pricing like what is the, what is the value of spending um $10 on 233 00:16:49.550 --> 00:16:54.150 online brand versus you know, 3040 that might be out there right now like 234 00:16:54.150 --> 00:16:57.910 premium and so you know, they'll tell you what's going on in their world, 235 00:16:57.910 --> 00:17:01.610 their motivators and drivers and barriers. They're not technical experts. 236 00:17:01.610 --> 00:17:04.869 If we are asking them what is the specific product attributes you're 237 00:17:04.869 --> 00:17:09.400 expecting me to build in the next product. It shouldn't be literal like 238 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.819 that. I think that's actually what you know, Henry ford months initially as 239 00:17:12.819 --> 00:17:16.640 well. Of course if he has, if he asked them, they would have said a faster 240 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:21.200 horse, but I mean if you take that as a marketing because marketing is is an 241 00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:25.690 art as well as a science, right? You know, if you take that and say they are 242 00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:30.810 trying to go from point A to B in a faster way, how can I do that? Again? 243 00:17:30.810 --> 00:17:33.740 It's all about I think asking they're listening and then asking the right 244 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.750 questions, it still gives you the right perspective in terms of, okay, what 245 00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:41.030 they need is speed, What they need is convenience. Um, how do I give it to 246 00:17:41.030 --> 00:17:45.160 them versus saying? Well of course they said faster horse, which doesn't exist. 247 00:17:45.170 --> 00:17:49.020 It's our job to define those technical options in terms of if this is the end 248 00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:52.980 benefit that they're looking for, how can I provide options to them to help 249 00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:59.160 them get there. That that sounds so fascinating to me because it's one of 250 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.110 those concepts where you hear it and you think, oh of course, but so many 251 00:18:04.110 --> 00:18:08.500 people strategies are built out in front of them that it's not angled that 252 00:18:08.500 --> 00:18:12.060 way. It's not the impetus is not customer insights. And so I'm really 253 00:18:12.060 --> 00:18:15.660 excited for people to hear that and see how would this work for my company. And 254 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:18.570 is that what I'm doing already? Are there ways that I can infuse it even 255 00:18:18.840 --> 00:18:22.590 more and and have those not only stronger relationships with people who 256 00:18:22.590 --> 00:18:25.750 know that you're listening to them, but then a stronger product and the 257 00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:31.980 stronger um, brand message you had mentioned the last time we talked that 258 00:18:31.990 --> 00:18:38.060 that product is King has that and building strategy around it has the the 259 00:18:38.060 --> 00:18:42.640 downside of like innovation for innovations sake and not listening to 260 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:46.100 customers moving quickly, that kind of thing. But another thing that you 261 00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:49.240 mentioned that I really want to impact here is you had said that the thinking 262 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.950 that product is King doesn't support the CMO and the thinking of the CMO or 263 00:18:55.950 --> 00:18:59.940 the future business model and I'm wondering, could you impact for me what 264 00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:04.580 that means. I try to touch on it briefly here as well when you asked 265 00:19:04.580 --> 00:19:08.660 like, you know, what would be the consequences of like not doing it right 266 00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:15.030 at the end of today. I think the role of marketing is either ill defined or 267 00:19:15.030 --> 00:19:19.310 very loosely defined. Unfortunately in a lot of the companies and part of the 268 00:19:19.310 --> 00:19:23.860 reason, you know, I think a lot of the CPG companies are known for doing 269 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:28.770 getting it right and doing it well is mainly because a lot of the managerial 270 00:19:28.770 --> 00:19:33.080 roles in those companies are taken by people coming from marketing that are 271 00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:36.170 really close to consumer insights. You know, they're good at developing 272 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:39.590 strategies, but they have accountability from a revenue growth 273 00:19:39.590 --> 00:19:44.360 perspective, that's why, you know, if all you can do and if you're 274 00:19:44.360 --> 00:19:47.560 specialized in such a way that you're almost like, like you're a technical 275 00:19:47.560 --> 00:19:51.770 expert, um, either from a channel perspective, product perspective could 276 00:19:51.770 --> 00:19:56.320 be from communications perspective, but you cannot kind of connect the dots 277 00:19:56.320 --> 00:20:01.990 with how all of these impacts revenue at the end of the day. You know, you 278 00:20:01.990 --> 00:20:05.980 know, evolve your model, evolve your activities, evolve your resources and 279 00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:12.100 investment in a way that actually drives revenue for the company. You're 280 00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:15.970 gonna lose that seat at the table at the board level. Right? So there has 281 00:20:15.970 --> 00:20:20.290 been, I attended compliance um, for the last few years actually they have 282 00:20:20.290 --> 00:20:24.670 certain tracks for like CMoS, um, to attend. And a lot of what they've been 283 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:28.790 talking about is the role of marketing and how it's actually evolving. And 284 00:20:28.790 --> 00:20:32.330 some companies, even the large ones you guys might have heard of these 285 00:20:32.330 --> 00:20:36.540 announcements, they illuminated the CME morals and it's shocking or like, wow, 286 00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:40.210 you think this role actually might not be necessary in some large companies? 287 00:20:40.210 --> 00:20:45.220 Why is that? And then you see these kind of other functions gaining like 288 00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:50.490 very strong power. Like, you know, the sales functions. Yeah. IOS are like, 289 00:20:50.490 --> 00:20:55.050 you know, it's because it's, we haven't been clear on kind of how marketing, 290 00:20:55.050 --> 00:20:59.620 the role of marketing should be being the voice of the customer at the end of 291 00:20:59.620 --> 00:21:04.400 today. And it's the glue function in my mind should be that blue function and 292 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:09.500 CMOS role is to be that glue function to bring it all together. Right? Like 293 00:21:09.510 --> 00:21:12.750 it should be able to, you need to be, you need to know enough about these 294 00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:17.900 things to kind of orchestrate and drive the company's strategy in the right 295 00:21:17.900 --> 00:21:21.880 direction. You don't have to go as deep on kind of like platform strategy, 296 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.430 innovation, strategy. Like, you know, sales go to market strategy, there's 297 00:21:25.430 --> 00:21:29.430 definitely expertise needed and all of that. But as we think about the role of 298 00:21:29.430 --> 00:21:33.990 CMO, especially if you're inspired to be one, uh, in the future. I think it's 299 00:21:33.990 --> 00:21:38.000 important to kind of broaden that business understanding the even that 300 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:43.310 was business understanding broaden your perspective in terms of ultimately how 301 00:21:43.310 --> 00:21:47.600 is what I'm doing right now, even in a day in and day out basis, I will just 302 00:21:47.610 --> 00:21:51.400 probably encourage people to kind of take a step back and think about how 303 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:56.360 you spend your day and then think about how did that help move the business? 304 00:21:56.370 --> 00:21:59.530 You know, we used to literally like lead with this question in a lot of our 305 00:21:59.530 --> 00:22:03.940 business studios at PNG, you know, are you helping move cases, meaning like, 306 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:07.200 are you, is this helping the sales, like whatever you're doing at the end 307 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.600 of the day and of course some of those are longer term investments. Absolutely. 308 00:22:11.610 --> 00:22:14.280 So I'm not saying like brand building is not important for long term 309 00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:18.020 investments are not important. But still there's methodologies for you to 310 00:22:18.020 --> 00:22:24.080 tie brand reputation to sales, there is methodologies to tie, you know, kind of 311 00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:29.440 the strength of your innovation pipeline to, you know, sales so short 312 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:33.620 term or long term, you still need to have a line of sight into, you know, I 313 00:22:33.620 --> 00:22:37.970 have a way it means to measure and no, you know, if what I'm doing is actually 314 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:42.600 helping move the business, grow the business or not. Um, so it's, it's 315 00:22:42.600 --> 00:22:47.580 really important, I think, you know, as the landscape gets more complicated and 316 00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:51.460 there's new channels and new tools and you know, new capabilities available to 317 00:22:51.460 --> 00:22:56.130 marketers, you can, you can choose to be a specialized person, you can choose 318 00:22:56.130 --> 00:23:00.210 a specialized track, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you aspire to 319 00:23:00.210 --> 00:23:05.500 be a CMO, if you want that seek to remain at the board level so that the 320 00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:09.510 CMR role is not eliminated ultimately in that company that you're working at 321 00:23:09.510 --> 00:23:12.660 or U. S. Fire to work. And that's really important for you to be a 322 00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:17.700 business leader first. Um and then be able to tie obviously again the 323 00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:23.050 marketing strategy that plans to that business strategy, if there's no CMO 324 00:23:23.060 --> 00:23:27.910 who takes ownership of marketing. Honestly, that's a good question. 325 00:23:27.910 --> 00:23:31.790 That's less of my concern so that it will be probably divvied up between 326 00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:36.850 whatever functions are available, maybe like a communications group, sales, you 327 00:23:36.850 --> 00:23:39.670 know, some of it could be, you know driven by the innovation group for the 328 00:23:39.670 --> 00:23:42.520 product group. However, they're actually kind of structuring it 329 00:23:42.520 --> 00:23:45.760 internally. I think the question really should be, who's going to take care of 330 00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:49.720 the consumer, like who's going to worry about customer, like who's going to 331 00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:54.790 think about the customer experience in some of the very progressive companies 332 00:23:54.800 --> 00:23:59.480 they actually now have underneath marketing usually should be, in my, in 333 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:04.780 my mind, customer experience managers, customer experience experts which 334 00:24:04.780 --> 00:24:09.280 really like they are actually grounding everyone back and like customer needs 335 00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:13.610 and customer experience. Um it's really more of orchestration, right? Like the 336 00:24:13.610 --> 00:24:17.310 other functions are actually not going away, but it puts your portfolio 337 00:24:17.310 --> 00:24:22.210 strategy in perspective. It puts your channel strategy in perspective, so it 338 00:24:22.210 --> 00:24:28.150 really brings it back to, you know, what is in it for the end customer and 339 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:32.410 you know, helps you ask the tough questions in terms of I do have the 340 00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:35.070 right product strategy, do we have the right pricing strategy? Do we have the 341 00:24:35.070 --> 00:24:39.240 right to go to market strategy? The right promotion strategy? So I think 342 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.880 that's the question we need to lead, but if there's no marketing function 343 00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:46.400 who owns and who's responsible from that customer explains and and business 344 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:51.070 growth, aside from these immersive experiences, you're talking about 345 00:24:51.070 --> 00:24:55.120 listening and gleaning customer insights. Are there especially for 346 00:24:55.120 --> 00:25:00.710 those aspiring to be CMOS? What are the tactics that marketing practitioners 347 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:06.630 need to be doing daily or you know, over the long the long term um to take 348 00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:11.470 care of the consumer? Yeah, I think there's the good news and bad news 349 00:25:11.470 --> 00:25:17.110 maybe is there's just a plethora of resources, especially secondary market 350 00:25:17.110 --> 00:25:22.380 research that uh you know, kind of scans the landscape in terms of like 351 00:25:22.390 --> 00:25:27.710 overall trends, you know, social media consumption habits, you know, digital 352 00:25:27.710 --> 00:25:30.720 consumption habits, services and solutions that are available in the 353 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:34.930 market, like consumer habits and practices. I would encourage you 354 00:25:34.930 --> 00:25:38.210 obviously depending on your category, there's nuances in terms of which ones 355 00:25:38.210 --> 00:25:41.820 are more important and relevant for you and your specific role? If you're in a 356 00:25:41.820 --> 00:25:45.740 more upstream role you might be more interested in, you know diving deeper 357 00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:50.380 into kind of like the innovation and, and long term strategy versus if it's a 358 00:25:50.390 --> 00:25:53.910 downstream role, it's different different in terms of like, you know, 359 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.380 how tactical you need to get from a channel consumption perspective for 360 00:25:57.380 --> 00:26:03.750 instance. But there is, if I think if you kind of remain curious, you know, 361 00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:08.480 in the space, in terms of like what's happening in the lives of my consumer 362 00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:11.390 and how does the world really evolving? Right, Because some of these are kind 363 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:16.210 of macro trends um, that you can monitor and observe. There's a lot of 364 00:26:16.210 --> 00:26:20.710 kind of good leadership type of materials out there. There's again, 365 00:26:20.710 --> 00:26:25.450 maybe too much like podcasts, white papers, you know, I would just 366 00:26:25.460 --> 00:26:30.380 encourage you to kind of probably prioritize the topic areas of interest. 367 00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:33.970 Start with a couple. Don't overwhelm yourself because I mean if you say, hey, 368 00:26:33.970 --> 00:26:38.080 I'm gonna spend five hours each week doing this. It's unrealistic. We know 369 00:26:38.080 --> 00:26:41.750 you're, we're all busy, There's enough going on. Um, maybe literally start 370 00:26:41.750 --> 00:26:46.260 with like blocking an hour on your calendar. That's what I used to do. Uh 371 00:26:46.270 --> 00:26:49.750 initially now it's more scary addict whenever I get time, it's usually at 372 00:26:49.750 --> 00:26:52.840 night or weekends. Unfortunately whenever I can catch my breath with all 373 00:26:52.840 --> 00:26:56.900 the, you know, competing priorities, but you know, start with an hour on 374 00:26:56.900 --> 00:27:00.820 your account there, blocked that time, protect that time and then give 375 00:27:00.820 --> 00:27:04.000 yourself a kind of a learning agenda for the weight based on kind of what 376 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.340 you might have, might be hearing or again, some of the things that might be 377 00:27:07.340 --> 00:27:10.870 already in your inbox from these, you know, services that you subscribe to 378 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.990 and then listen for start following and listening. If it's, if that's, you know, 379 00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:19.120 publisher is not helpful or whether a channel you're providing is not useful 380 00:27:19.120 --> 00:27:23.360 switch. Like you don't have to, you know, kind of continue to do the same 381 00:27:23.360 --> 00:27:26.680 thing if it's not working for you switch but make sure that our is 382 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.540 protected. It's valuable. And then try to ask yourself the question at the end 383 00:27:30.550 --> 00:27:33.260 because I think application of those insights are important. Like a lot of 384 00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:37.810 the time to be go through the report or listen to a podcast or like, oh, this 385 00:27:37.810 --> 00:27:41.740 is great. I feel so inspired right now and then we run into a meeting and then 386 00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:46.880 like we forget about what we actually like why why was I so inspired? So try 387 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:51.070 to take some time at the end, like five time minutes maybe just captured or 388 00:27:51.070 --> 00:27:53.800 announced in terms of like this is why this is interesting or this is how we 389 00:27:53.800 --> 00:27:57.600 can apply some of these learnings to our business and then if it's really 390 00:27:57.600 --> 00:28:01.720 relevant for your team and if you want to discuss it more broadly, um pull 391 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:04.910 that team together and say, hey, let's just like this is what I read, you know, 392 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:08.340 uh, let's read it together or I want to share my insights. So I'm kind of how 393 00:28:08.340 --> 00:28:11.600 we can leverage some of these best practices in our space. But I think 394 00:28:11.600 --> 00:28:15.030 it's really being intentional about your learning experience is very, very 395 00:28:15.030 --> 00:28:18.580 important because you know, I think that's, that's actually a leadership 396 00:28:18.580 --> 00:28:22.790 quality, you know, regardless of where you are in the organization, if you're 397 00:28:22.790 --> 00:28:27.080 a VPN organization or Stephen as CMO, honestly, it doesn't mean that you have 398 00:28:27.080 --> 00:28:30.530 all the answers, you know, I can, good leaders are the ones that are able to 399 00:28:30.530 --> 00:28:35.800 ask good questions and they remain curious. Um, so you know, don't, don't 400 00:28:35.800 --> 00:28:40.240 think like, you know, your directors, your, your VPs or CMoS have all the 401 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.920 answers. I think this guidance stays true for everyone. I still try to do it 402 00:28:43.930 --> 00:28:48.110 you know, myself because the landscape is changing so fast, right? Like 403 00:28:48.120 --> 00:28:54.040 especially on digital right now, a lot of the senior leaders and marketing are 404 00:28:54.040 --> 00:28:56.970 leveraging what's called reverse mentoring, which is like they are 405 00:28:56.970 --> 00:29:00.340 actually being paired up with like younger, you know, people in the 406 00:29:00.340 --> 00:29:05.090 organization to be product managers or like even like interns who are digital 407 00:29:05.090 --> 00:29:08.710 natives to learn something, right? Because they're definitely out the 408 00:29:08.710 --> 00:29:11.750 experts. I mean I don't want to generalize that most of them are not 409 00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:15.650 experts. They didn't grow up with a lot of these channels and technologies. So 410 00:29:15.650 --> 00:29:19.750 they are digital adapters versus digital natives. So um I think it's, 411 00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:22.840 it's also, it should be the culture of the team in the company as well to say, 412 00:29:22.840 --> 00:29:26.650 hey we all need to constantly learn and grow and you know, build our 413 00:29:26.650 --> 00:29:30.910 capabilities and skill sets and being intentional about your kind of learning 414 00:29:30.910 --> 00:29:35.260 agenda protecting that time on your calendar. Um and then making sure 415 00:29:35.260 --> 00:29:39.200 you're giving yourself some time at the end to to capture your thoughts and 416 00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:43.260 learnings and force yourself to think how can I apply this to my own business 417 00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:49.300 and ask yourself, like you were saying, how does this help move cases? How does 418 00:29:49.300 --> 00:29:54.910 this move the company forward for somebody who wants to recalibrate their 419 00:29:54.910 --> 00:29:59.590 strategy so that it's now customer led by customer insights, How do you 420 00:29:59.590 --> 00:30:05.530 recommend they start? Each company has a process. Usually it might be very 421 00:30:05.530 --> 00:30:10.610 loosely defined if it's not defined at all, if you cannot like put on a paper 422 00:30:10.610 --> 00:30:14.860 your innovation process in terms of like, here's how we actually go from an 423 00:30:14.860 --> 00:30:19.450 idea concept to execution. It is a problem, I would start with that if you 424 00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:23.470 want a process like document your process, but I assume you have a 425 00:30:23.470 --> 00:30:28.160 process, ask those questions are like very in that journey, are they actually 426 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:33.950 getting during that process? Are we getting customer insights most of the 427 00:30:33.950 --> 00:30:37.850 times. Unfortunately it is after the fact after we build the product, we 428 00:30:37.850 --> 00:30:41.790 think about how we, how do we position it in the market? How do I communicate 429 00:30:41.790 --> 00:30:47.970 and like it after the fact, so you know, really scrutinize like especially in 430 00:30:47.970 --> 00:30:52.110 the upstream part of that process, do we have the right steps in the process 431 00:30:52.110 --> 00:30:55.830 to actually immerse ourselves and the customers. You know, once you need some 432 00:30:55.830 --> 00:31:00.010 drivers and barriers and how are we taking in those insights into our 433 00:31:00.010 --> 00:31:03.780 innovation process? Right. Because again, if it's only like one person 434 00:31:03.780 --> 00:31:06.570 from marketing doing this and that person is trying to communicate with 435 00:31:06.570 --> 00:31:09.930 the rest of the team, it's better than not doing anything. But it's, it might 436 00:31:09.930 --> 00:31:13.830 not be as helpful for the technical experts like research and development 437 00:31:13.830 --> 00:31:17.540 folks or product folks to truly appreciate, you know, where you're 438 00:31:17.540 --> 00:31:22.620 trying to take the um, technology. So, um making sure you do it in the right 439 00:31:22.630 --> 00:31:26.010 way and you might be more of the right people in the journey. I think it's 440 00:31:26.010 --> 00:31:30.560 also important, you know, as you do that and giving your it does, you don't 441 00:31:30.560 --> 00:31:34.140 have to over complicated, but I would pick the battles and make a commitment 442 00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:37.600 as a team and say, okay, maybe we cannot, maybe for some of the projects 443 00:31:37.600 --> 00:31:41.840 we have um, that are going on right now, it's too late. The train has left the 444 00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:45.500 station, but for this upcoming one, maybe start with a smaller scale 445 00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:49.090 project if you think it's gonna be harder to comments organization to like 446 00:31:49.090 --> 00:31:52.880 do something differently, but pick it, pick your battles in terms of very my 447 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:58.410 pilot this approach and just like work with some internal champions. Um, that 448 00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:03.180 are also believers hopefully or can be turned into believers on kind of 449 00:32:03.180 --> 00:32:06.740 convincing the larger group on, you know, doing it right, documenting it 450 00:32:06.740 --> 00:32:10.910 and going through this journey together and piloted so people can actually 451 00:32:10.910 --> 00:32:16.780 experience the difference versus kind of the old way of doing it if it 452 00:32:16.780 --> 00:32:21.060 doesn't work and because change management is probably like 80 90% of 453 00:32:21.070 --> 00:32:25.210 my job right now, especially with the transformation the industry is going 454 00:32:25.210 --> 00:32:28.630 through, you know, from a digital distraction perspective, you might do 455 00:32:28.630 --> 00:32:32.610 all of this and still not see progress in terms of like, you know the change 456 00:32:32.610 --> 00:32:36.190 you're trying to drive in the organization, you can always consider 457 00:32:36.190 --> 00:32:41.950 like bringing external expertise and have consultants, you know, speak to 458 00:32:41.950 --> 00:32:44.830 the group about like best practices, right? Because a lot of these best 459 00:32:44.830 --> 00:32:50.380 practices exist. Um it's not only like me having done this before, you know, a 460 00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:54.460 lot of the again, P B two C companies are using it, even in B two B, there is 461 00:32:54.460 --> 00:32:58.800 very well documented processes that can be leveraged. So if you feel like, you 462 00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:03.110 know, you might be lacking the credibility or kind of influence an 463 00:33:03.110 --> 00:33:07.890 organization to drive that change, you can consider potentially engaging with 464 00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:12.920 external firm, a consultant to actually come in and share some of those best 465 00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:16.260 practices with some case studies on, you know, here's how they've done it 466 00:33:16.260 --> 00:33:20.480 differently and here's how that worked for that specific company, sometimes we 467 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:25.040 like to hear what we already know from other people too. Act again, you might 468 00:33:25.040 --> 00:33:28.940 believe in that, but for you to act and you know, create that burning platform, 469 00:33:28.940 --> 00:33:32.760 it might help for you to hear it from a third party that is more objective 470 00:33:33.140 --> 00:33:36.960 because um if there was one thing that you wanted listeners to get from this 471 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:42.170 episode, what would be the necessary take away, what have you done for your 472 00:33:42.340 --> 00:33:46.510 customers today? Literally like I want people to think, you know, after this, 473 00:33:46.510 --> 00:33:49.830 like think of your day, your week, your month, whatever is the right time frame 474 00:33:49.830 --> 00:33:53.030 for you because you might be just consumed with one project for the last 475 00:33:53.030 --> 00:33:56.730 five months and that's fine. Think about that project. You know, if if 476 00:33:56.730 --> 00:34:00.960 your role is very dynamic and every day you do like slightly different things 477 00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:04.450 like really think of like what have I done today that is going to 478 00:34:04.450 --> 00:34:07.880 meaningfully impact the experience of the cost customers and that's 479 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:11.550 ultimately gonna drive that behavior change, right? Because obviously you 480 00:34:11.550 --> 00:34:15.870 talked about the business impact like driving cases, driving revenue, that is 481 00:34:15.870 --> 00:34:19.659 really the end results. There's a lot of leading indicators and a lot of, you 482 00:34:19.659 --> 00:34:24.560 know, drivers that gets you to that end result and a lot of those are, you know, 483 00:34:24.570 --> 00:34:29.440 more behavioral goals in terms of like, you know, persuading people creating 484 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:33.870 awareness, driving engagement. So, you know, you really need to have clarity 485 00:34:33.870 --> 00:34:37.219 in terms of, okay, well we've done the program you've launched in the last 486 00:34:37.219 --> 00:34:40.600 month is gonna help build reputation with a new group that you've never 487 00:34:40.600 --> 00:34:44.980 engaged with and the reason I know you're on the right track is like abc 488 00:34:44.980 --> 00:34:48.900 you should be able to articulate those things if you can't, don't feel bad, I 489 00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:52.440 don't think you're alone. Honestly, you might be in this, you know, kind of 490 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.090 silo like trying to check the box and just get like keep the project rolling. 491 00:34:57.090 --> 00:35:00.690 Maybe you've never questioned like it or not. The processes are, you know, 492 00:35:00.700 --> 00:35:05.440 built correctly or if you need to think differently, but you know, pausing and 493 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:10.520 asking yourself, those questions can get your next big project on the right 494 00:35:10.520 --> 00:35:15.710 track. Oh my goodness. That is so succinct so eloquent. I'm super excited 495 00:35:15.710 --> 00:35:20.190 for people to hear this. You've provided. Just such a rich information. 496 00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:25.260 I'm excited to go back and think about how you know, what have I done for my 497 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:29.230 customers today? What have I done for potential customers? For people who 498 00:35:29.230 --> 00:35:32.940 want to learn more either about you or your company? How can listeners connect 499 00:35:32.940 --> 00:35:37.850 with you? They can connect me, connect with me on lengthen. So I'm on linkedin. 500 00:35:37.850 --> 00:35:41.840 I'm very, I try to remain active so they can search for my name. I will be 501 00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:45.540 happy to connect and counting the conversation. People on lengthen. Oh, 502 00:35:45.550 --> 00:35:49.170 that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on GDP growth. 503 00:35:49.540 --> 00:35:52.850 Absolutely Olivia. This was a pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation. 504 00:35:52.850 --> 00:35:55.540 Thanks for having me. Me too. Yeah. 505 00:35:57.640 --> 00:35:57.850 Mm 506 00:35:59.140 --> 00:36:02.910 For the longest time I was asking people to leave a review of GDP growth 507 00:36:02.910 --> 00:36:07.410 in apple podcasts but I realized that was kind of stupid because leaving a 508 00:36:07.410 --> 00:36:12.600 review is way harder than just leaving a simple rating. So I'm changing my 509 00:36:12.600 --> 00:36:16.340 tune a bit. Instead of asking you to leave a review, I'm just gonna ask you 510 00:36:16.340 --> 00:36:20.910 to go to be be growth in apple podcasts, scroll down until you see the ratings 511 00:36:20.910 --> 00:36:25.020 and reviews section and just tap the number of stars you want to give us no 512 00:36:25.030 --> 00:36:30.370 review necessary. Super easy. And I promise it will help us out a ton. If 513 00:36:30.370 --> 00:36:34.000 you want a copy of my book, content based networking, just shoot me a text 514 00:36:34.010 --> 00:36:40.690 after you leave the rating and I'll send on your way, Text me at 40749033 - 515 00:36:40.690 --> 00:36:42.560 eight.