Transcript
WEBVTT
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Mhm.
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Hello and welcome to the BDB Growth
Show, Monthly Book talk. I'm Douglas
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Burnett, host of the marketing book
podcast where each week I published an
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interview with the author of a new
marketing or sales book to help me and
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my listeners keep up with the latest
ideas and the quickly changing world of
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marketing and sales. And joining me is
my friend James, muir, author of The
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Perfect Close The Secret to closing
sales. In this monthly episode of the
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GDP Growth Show, we recap some of the
key ideas from the marketing and sales
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books recently featured on the
marketing book podcast. Now I read
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every book featured on the marketing
book podcast, but James read even more
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books than I do and he listens to every
episode of the marketing book podcasts.
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I'm delighted that he can join me. A
lot of listeners ask us for a book
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recommendations. So if either of us can
recommend any marketing or sales books
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or other resources for whatever
situation you find yourself in or what
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you'd like to learn more about, please
feel free to connect with us on
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linkedin where we can chat and we'll do
our best to get you pointed in the
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right direction. But please, for the
love of all that is Holy, please make
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sure to include a message with your
invitation to connect on linkedin so
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we'll know you're not a filthy spammer.
No spam. Yes, James, Welcome back to
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the BdB Growth Show Monthly Book Talk.
Thank you Douglas. I do read every book
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and I listen to every episode because
you always have the best guests on your
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show. I tell you I I am so like a
magnet for great books and great
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interviews. I don't know, it's like a
gift that you're well, I'll tell you
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what I think it is. I speak with so
many authors at the end of the
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interview and they'll go, you know what
I did a lot of interviews, but you're
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the only person who actually read the
book, like, like the word gets out and
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it's like, I remember saying that. So,
so people are like, well, actually
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going to go on that guy's because
they'll actually he actually reads the
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book. So maybe whatever it takes, you
know? But I I feel so lucky to be able
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to interview these these authors on the
show. Clearly they're not threatened by
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my intelligence because opposites
attract, but maybe that whatever it
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takes, okay, man, word's gotten out,
word's gotten out. Everybody knows you
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really read the book, you really know
what you're talking about. Well, I'm
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having fun doing it. I just love doing
it. And this is great too. So, in this
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episode of Book Talk, we're gonna talk
about the four most recent books
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featured on the marketing book podcast,
which are the experience economy
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competing for customer time, attention
and money by joseph Pine and James
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Gilmore. After that we've got the hype
handbook 12, indispensable success,
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Secrets from the world's greatest
propagandist self promoters, cult
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leaders, mischief makers and boundary
breakers by Michael F Shine and
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somebody's got to get an award for that
subtitle. That's all I can say. It's
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great trying to deal with the ministry
of comments. Oh my gosh, it's awesome!
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After that, we've got the ultimate
guide to google ads by Perry, Marshall,
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Mike Roads and brian Todd. And then
finally, we have selling from the heart
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how your authentic self cells you by
Larry Levine. So, our first book is the
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experience economy competing for
customer time, attention and money by
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joseph Pine and James Gilmore. And I
actually remember reading the first
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edition of this book when it first came
out and I loved it back then. And so I
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was really excited to read this second
edition. So tell us a little bit about
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your interview with James Gilmore. Yeah,
so This book, I think the first edition
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came out in 1999 and what they did is
they updated it over the years and they
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updated again just two years ago, and I
learned about it from Darryl Amy, who
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is the author of Revenue Growth Engine,
which was also the last time I think
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past episode of the marketing book
podcast and I've read a number of books
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about customer experience, but it never
really sunk into my thick head as much
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as it did with this particular book.
And I guess it's sort of the way they
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frame it, Not to take anything away
from all these other really, really
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good books about customer experience
that have been on the show. But
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basically, if you go back, like, I
don't know, 200 years, there were there
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were commodities and then they were
like, finished goods, you know, like in
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the once the Industrial Age started,
there were goods and then services very
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much in the 20th century. And they
actually explain why the service
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economy really his I mean, it's still
there, but it's no longer on the rise.
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And now we're in the experience economy,
and he talks about how just a couple of
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the key ideas that really took hold for
me is that people will skimp now on
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goods or services in order to have a
better experience. So if you are only
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selling a good or a service, you're
gonna be compromised financially. In
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other words, you're you're you're
fighting a losing battle instead. You
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need to do everything you can to, to
make what you're selling an experience.
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So you think of an experience. The
greatest examples like a Disney, you
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know, you go to a Disney theme park,
even the way they fold the towels in
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your hotel rooms and experience, it's,
they're, they're extremely well trained,
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The whole organizations engineered that
way. A lot of hospitality organizations
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have that travel like Southwest
Airlines is a little bit more of an
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experience. They're not, you know, you
like them for that. And one of the
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interesting ideas in the book, he talks
about how you should always ask
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yourself what would we do differently
if we charged admission. And that was a
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very interesting concept, because he
even talked about how Disney had,
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Disney and Nike had these big flagship
stores in new york and Chicago and it
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didn't cost anything to get in there
and they kind of missed the boat by not
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charging people to come in or at least
charging for some aspect of the store.
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And now they both sort of devolved into
this basically merchandise stores
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because people will, they want to pay
more for a good experience. And another
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concept from the book that really I
really liked was he talks about how to
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many companies will give away any
experiences they add in order to better
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sell their goods and services. And he
says that's a race to the bottom two.
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In other words, you should be thinking
first and foremost about what what's an
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experience that we can give people. And
he also explains that even the most
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mundane transactions can be turned into
memorable experiences. So people will
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remember the experiences that they have
and they'll they'll pay for that, you
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know, you think back two years ago, the
advent of these theme restaurants and
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it was an interesting experience. And
the problem that he outlines there
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along with a lot of companies is that
they don't continue to update the
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experience, it's just kind of, it's hot
for a while and then and then it peters
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out. But the other, I mean it's where
the money is, he talks about how
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experiences are much more profitable
than selling services. So it was a
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meeting with maybe even the less
complex product. Right? So he is a
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comparison of like base camp versus
other project management tools which
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are base camp isn't nearly
sophisticated, it just is really good
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at like four or five things. Yes. Yes.
And uh one other one quote from the
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book, he talks about those that thrive
will do so because they treat their
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economic offering as a rich experience
and not a glorified good or celebrated
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service and will stage it in a way that
engages the individual and leaves
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behind a memory. And a big part of the
second half of the book,
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he talks about how theater is such a
great paradigm for the way companies
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should be creating experiences. If you
think about like a Disney for instance,
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to go back to them, um, those are
though, they don't call them employees,
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they call him cast members and they're
all trained and they understand what
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their particular role is. And he has
several chapters that explain how this,
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how this works at companies that are
doing great, producing great
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experiences. And even talks about
companies now
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they don't have human resources
departments, they have casting
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departments, it's a completely
different approach. But then you look
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at that and go, yes, of course, that's
why it works. And that's why I've been
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buying from from companies like that.
So it's a paradigm. Yeah, he and he and
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at the end, when you're on your
interview anyway, he was recommending
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books about drama, right? Yeah. In
order to so it's just an interesting
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paradigm that applies well to the whole
experience. You know, one of the things
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he mentions, because I'm talking to a
sales guy, he talks about how if a
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company designs a worthwhile experience,
customers will gladly pay the company
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to essentially sell to them. Isn't that
interesting? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
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Right. And there are a couple other
companies and I'm trying to think of uh
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the mortgage experience with rocket
mortgage. I don't know that that was in
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the book, but that's a very, very
different experience than almost any
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other mortgage company. They have
really figured out how to you actually
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use them recently, didn't you? Yeah.
Yeah. I was I was stunned by how
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different the experience was just by,
you know just I mean it's money right?
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Either way you're just buying money. So
it's mostly about the rate. But man, oh
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man was the experience. I would highly
recommend it. Yeah, interesting. And
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it's also like, I don't think I can
ever buy, I have an 18 year old car and
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I think the main reason why because I
don't want to have to go through the
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experience of buying another new car.
But over the years, last couple of
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years I bought cars for my kids at
Carmax and I just thought you know, I
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think I'm just going to buy from them
because it was such a better experience.
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I even sold a car through them and I
just thought, oh boy, what a relief.
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Those guys have embraced this principle.
What did you think of his concept of
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advertising? To experience ratio? Try
to remember basically. It's the concept
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is you offer experiences that customers
really want to do instead I have to do.
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Right. Right, right. Yeah. That was the
memory goes first James. Um, no, he
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talks about how advertising is actually,
it's now become like a phony this
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machine where people, they can
experience these things and they're
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going to tell other people about it.
And that's why you're you'll hear
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people like me or a bunch of the
authors that I've interviewed talked
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about how the experience is really that
your marketing now or your customers,
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are you marketing now very closely
related to the word of mouth marketing.
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Right. Yes. Yes. But I love this book
the first time around. I would say that
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the what of the experience economy, of
the dynamics. I don't think that's
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really changed at all since the first
edition. But what has changed is the
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how to do all that? And this new
edition addresses that fantastically.
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So, I thought this was a fantastic read.
Yeah. And I it's not like they're
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trying to persuade anyone, they're
laying out facts explaining, look, this
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is what's going on. And it was like,
that's why it was such a head slapping
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experience for me, because of course,
that's how Oh, yeah, Now I now I see.
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So not only is a customer experience,
very, very important, but delivering
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experiences. The biggest takeaway from
me was how much more profitable it is.
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Right? And that's the evolution of
everything to, right. That's where it's
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all going. So you can get either be on
board or get left behind. Yes. All
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right, well, next up, we've got the
hype handbook 12 indispensable Success,
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Secrets from the world's greatest
propaganda, self promoters, cult
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leaders, mischief makers and boundary
breakers by Michael F shine. And like I
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said, somebody should get a prize for
that. If he, if he's the one that came
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up with that subtitle, he deserves an
award because I'm sure he did. He is a
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phenomenal writer. And as I joked with
him, I can't remember doing the
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interview or not or beforehand. I just
said your book was a joy to read and it
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was written so much better than it had
to be. It was, it was an easy reading.
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It is kind of a bigger book too. But I
mean it was just so engaging right
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before I read it. I kind of had a
negative connotation with the word hype,
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you know? But I mean if Michael doesn't
mind me saying, I would say that this
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book is really more about influence a
little bit like Children's books than
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it is about hype the way we
traditionally think about it. So, but
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he's a very interesting person. So,
tell us about your interview. Yes. So
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he talks about how the perception of
hype is exactly what James Miller just
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said. It's associated with ne'er do
Wells And it's disparage. But he
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explains that it's, you know, somewhat
art and science here. But he explains
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these 12 ways that hype artists use it
for good or bad. And he would like more
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people to use it for good. And I think
he makes the case for that quite well.
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So you have to get over the fact that
hype is considered, you know, an eye
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rolling concept. But then he goes
through and this is what was so
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interesting, goes through history. I
mean all the way back to before before.
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Yeah, he likes using a really old
history. Yeah. And and all the way up
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to the 20th century and, and so forth.
And I had to laugh. I'm going to read
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this because the book talks about
various hype artists, including people
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like Donald trump, Barack, Obama, kim
jong il, joseph goebbels, Hitler's pr
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man, louis, Farrakhan, Gary, Vaynerchuk,
tim Ferriss, Bernie Madoff, johnny
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rotten, Andy Warhol, the french
revolution, the bolshevik revolution
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and the Church of scientology. So talk
about covering the waterfront and he's
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not saying all these people are are bad
obviously, but he's, he was showing how
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they were able to use hype for good or
bad and very, very uh entertaining. And
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so there's, there's 12 different ways
we won't go into all of them. But a
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couple of them, they were very
interesting. And almost every chapter
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as I read through it, I went kind of
like with the experience economy, Oh,
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that's how they do it. It was like
watching a penn and teller performance
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where they show how they're doing the
trick. And one of the first things he
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talked about, which is the, and he has
a firm that helps clients do these
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kinds of things to promote themselves
and some very, very successfully. And
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the, one of the areas that is very,
very important. But it gets the most
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pushback on from clients is this idea
of, uh, the great unifier of hatred. So
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he talks about, you've got to pick
fights and it doesn't necessarily mean
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you pick a fight with the competitor
down the street. You could be picking a
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fight with some frustration that a lot
of your customers have or yeah, or a
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problem or some aspect of a friction
and that type of thing. And You do have
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to pick the right enemy. Um, there's a
there's a, he explains that he explains
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how to go about finding the right kind
of him because he shows examples of
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people that picked the wrong enemy.
Don't be a troll. Yeah. Right, right.
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But you can pick something. Like, I
think you just mentioned um, 37 signals
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the base camp people. I'm pretty sure
he mentioned him in his book where they
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were, they picked a fight with complex
project management software and Base
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camp is a very simple one. And so they
were picking a fight with, with that
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aspect. So picking a fight is almost
required and a lot of these overlap a
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certain a bit. Another thing he talked
another chapter is he talks about how
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the best way to get people to do what
you want them to do is to have them get
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themselves there in steps so small that
they don't even know it is happening.
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Which reminded me of this book called
The Perfect Close by James new york,
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right? Uh uh no, it really was that
came to mind, but for instance, he
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talks about the Church of scientology
at one point and he said, you know,
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they have some beliefs and some
concepts that people find really quite
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unbelievable at first and that's why
they don't mention them when they get
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people to join. It seems like more of a
uh you know, uh more of a holistic
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wellbeing, time management, you know,
positive thinking, psychology. Yeah,
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yeah. And then they go and then they
gave examples of other cults in the
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past that showed how, you know, you
don't try and change people too much
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all at once and why, why that works us
so well. One other idea that I see in
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the news all the time, particularly
this last year with the coronavirus is
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basically the reporting of it where he
talks about people can't resist the
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persuasive appeal of a flawed or
fraudulent idea when packaged in hard
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science and oh yeah, he said make it
scientific. Yes. Even if it's not just
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say, you know, but he shows how people
swallow that hook line and sinker when
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it's got some sort of science wrapped
in, even if it's not related to what
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you're we're talking about. Even if
it's junk science, right? They're
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completely abandoned common sense. As
long as she said, hey, somebody did a
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study or we did a survey and this is
the thing. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So
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there was back to drama with the
experience economy. He talks about how
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hype artists are really good at two of
the key facets of drama which are
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tension and mystery. So you think about
any kind of think about Shakespeare or
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any kind of movie, uh die hard,
anything like that, there's tension and
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mystery. They don't tell you right away
what's gonna what's going to happen.
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And he said the hype artists are really
good at bringing out the tension and
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and kind of holding back the mystery.
And he says, regardless of their
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subject matter, these professional
thought leaders invariably inject
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whatever constructive or inspirational
messages they there are that there's a
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conveying with doses of doom I think of,
you know, religious leaders, he talks
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about religious leaders because he
talks about all of these sentiments
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serve to make you squirm before
relieving the tension. And he even said
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this is what I thought it would be
interesting to you. He said, inflicting
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this kind of pain is something your
customers, clients and prospects want
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you to do even if they don't know it.
But I remember every principle in this
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book must be used for good for good.
That's right. That's right. Right. I
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think he wrote this with some a little
bit of trepidation and you know what it
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reminded me of a book that was on the
show several years ago called hooked by
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near AOL. And he is a great book, best
selling book. It explains how companies
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make addictive products, right? And I
mean social media, but other things as
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well. And he includes at the end of
their saying, now listen, you got to
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use this for good, you gotta use
remember that right, adding gambling
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elements to games. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then he later wrote another book
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called in distractible in part because
you felt so bad about you know how to
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defend yourself against those things.
He wasn't teaching companies who are
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already making addictive products how
to do anything because they already
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know how to do that. So back to my
friend uh near, but the other thing he
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talked about was this idea of coming up
with a solution to a complex problem
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and making it really almost too simple
and clear and example he gave was, You
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know, somebody could come out and write
a book now and you know, great
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leadership for the 21st century, it
would be kind of a ho hum, But instead
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you write a book like the seven habits
of highly effective people, so it
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becomes much more concrete even if it's
not or the other great example he has
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was tim Ferriss the four hour workweek.
Yeah, so nobody is going to have that
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four hour work week. But they've been
aspire to that. And they were there was
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an allure of that simplicity. People
are attracted to this idea that there's
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an absolute truth, there? S an absolute
truth. So, another concept that I
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thought was very interesting and he
talks about promoting the ideas of
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fulfillment successor salvation through
toil is the cheapest and most efficient
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way for a hype artist to get others to
spread their message for them. I know
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you're thinking Gary Vaynerchuk right
there and he talks about by fetishizing
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hard work hype artists find their
followers bind their followers to them
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ever more tightly. And he talks about
how if you can find ways to put your
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clients and customers to work
implementing your ideas rather than
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always doing the implementing for them.
They will keep coming back for more.
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And the example he gives there and the
camera if we talked about this in the
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interview but he belonged to this
organization that helped agency people
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and he was paying a good bit of money
and he would go to these quarterly
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meetings and they showed him exactly
what to do and people would come in not
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having done everything they were
supposed to do because they would get
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distracted and they run into business
and they were apologizing saying, I'm
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sorry, I wasn't getting all this done,
but they were charging enough so that
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he was trying to take it seriously. And
that is what really got me quite
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interested because I mean the agency
world and we when we've done work for a
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for clients in the past and I over
exaggerated by saying, you know, we're
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leaving at the loading dock for them,
they never take ownership of it, and
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they say, you know, I wrote a check and
I was expecting something to happen
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here, and it's like, well, it's kind of
not have marketing works anymore if
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advertising still work that well, I'd
be doing it. And generally, and and
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this has talked about in Marcus
Sheridan's book. They ask you answer
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the second edition, he talks about how
in the past, and this has been my
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experience to when you try and do all
this work for a client, and they're not
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involved in it, and they're not taking
partial ownership of it. It usually
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falls through, it doesn't work out. And
that's why this this was further
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affirmation of, look, we're going to
start getting out of that, we're going
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to say, look, we're going to help you
do it, but we're gonna do it so that
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you guys will be able to take over
quickly. And the irony is that the hard
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work itself makes people believe even
more in the cause, Right? So it's like
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a double plus. I'm doing some work for
be any right now. It's a networking
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organization and it's exactly that,
that the chapter level, it's all
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volunteer, nobody's getting paid for
any of that stuff. And yet they are
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very structured. They have expectations
for you to be in the group and all that.
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And it totally works very effective,
you know, at the risk of sounding
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sacrilegious. There was one of the
things in this book where he talks
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about churches and bibles, but he
doesn't mean necessarily religion or an
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actual, like The old, he calls the
seven habits of bible basically.
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Exactly. He, so he talks about how the
some of the best hype artists they
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produce a bible okay, like the four
hour workweek or the seven habits of
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highly effective people or, or whatever,
basically the truth that you hold To be
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like the 10, Not the 10 commandments,
but there's probably something of B and
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where they have some sort of Yeah, they
do directive saying this is what's
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important and this is what works. And
then he talks about how starting a
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church and again, a church meaning a
group of believers of something, uh,
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not necessarily religion. He says
that's the best growth hacking method
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ever invented because they go and
evangelizing being is a great example.
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Weight watchers is a great example, all
kinds of things like that. Yeah,
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absolutely. Well, his, uh, there's so
much to this. There's for the listeners.
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There are 12 total principles that he's
using uh, in the book, right? That he
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calls hypes hype strategies I think is
what they're called. And I think we got
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maybe half of those so fantastic if you
like this kind of stuff, which is all
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about influence and persuasion and that
kind of thing. And psychology, which I
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do, you'll find it very fascinating. Um,
here's one takeaway for the listeners
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is if you're trying to better yourself,
he suggested that you pay attention to
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what the gurus are actually doing, not
necessarily saying, but what they're
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actually doing and observe their hype
techniques, uh, in this context and
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learn from that, right? And the one
thing that he thought listeners could
328
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do to start is, you know, what's the
point of view? And you ask yourself
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what, you know, what's the point of
view in your industry that's accepted
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as the truth, right? And an irrefutable
trip that you just disagree with.
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That's a pretty good place to start to
remember. The very first thing we
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talked about was, you know, make war,
not love, pick an enemy, pick an enemy.
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So this is this is a great place to
start for your contrarian view, right?
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The enemy that you're gonna fight. Very
entertaining read. Oh man. The whole is
335
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I would say this book fits somewhere
between Baldini's influence and maybe
336
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the Heath brothers made to stick and
maybe Seth Godin's. This is marketing,
337
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but it touches on a ton of useful tools
for promoting ideals with a unique
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perspective. And I think what separates
this book maybe from a number of other
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books out there that covers some of
these topics is that he demands that
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every, every reader must use these
tools for good. Yes, and I would throw
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in a bit of Malcolm Gladwell too,
because he just like that list. I read
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all those people, He covers them and
many more. Yes, absolutely. So,
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absolutely great book, very
entertaining and the interview that you
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did with his entertaining too. So be
sure to catch that. Alright, well next
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up we've got uh ultimate guide to
google ads by Perry Marshall, Mike
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roads and brian Todd and I think, you
know, I'm a big fan of Perry Marshall
347
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and his cadre of experts and that he co
authors his books with and this book is
348
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really no exception to that. So, tell
us about your interview with Mike Roads.
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Well, there was another book that came
out quite recently that Perry Marshall
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wrote with bob rigorous and one of the
co author whose name I can't recall at
351
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the moment and I apologize for that,
but I interviewed bob rigorous and it
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was all about the ultimate guide to
facebook advertising and what was so
353
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interesting about that book as well as
this one is that the book and
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particularly the interview was we only
talked about things that were relevant
355
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even if you're not a facebook
advertisers, you're not a google
356
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advertiser and there is so much to
learn about marketing and sales from
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studying what works on the cutting edge
of like facebook advertising or google
358
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advertising. Both books were great at
simply straight up marketing as opposed
359
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to thinking of them as only google ads
are only facebook ads. Right? Yes, Well
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they don't work if you don't have good
marketing the beginning. Yeah,
361
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fundamentals. And so that I heard from
so many listeners who said they learned
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so much from these, both those
interviews because it was a great
363
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reminder of what's what's really
important couple things that were just
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really important. And again, it's not
about click this button, click this
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button is the thing about google
advertising is the most successful
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people are the best at figuring out
your prospects intent. So once again,
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those that understand their customers
better when period full stop and they
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actually sell more to even, you know,
in the sales world. And another
369
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integrate concept, he says, remember
your ads only job is to get them to
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click on it. It's your websites job to
persuade them and take action. And by,
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there's a lot of people are thinking,
oh, that's all we got to do. Well wait
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a minute. Is your is your website even
squared away? So the sales equivalent
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of that is don't sell on the phone. You
said to get the appointment? Yes, Yes,
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exactly, exactly, exactly. And uh he
talks in the book, I mean, we're
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talking entire chapters here about USPS,
unique selling propositions. Old
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harkening back to the days of Rosser
Reeves at the ted bates agency. But you
377
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know, they explain that the business
ventures that fail the fastest are the
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ones that have no U. S. P. And a any
selling proposition is a statement. You
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choose to embody what differentiates
your products and your brand from your
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competitors. He's fairly constructive
there in that chapter to write because
381
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he says sometimes USP is not a single
thing. It might be a combination of
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things or or or the exact market that
you serve or I mean there's a he's very
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creative about the ways that you can
develop this if you think you're in a
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commodity space. Yeah. You know what
else is interesting about google
385
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advertising? It's a great way to test
things. You can even test your USP for
386
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very little money just by testing who
who's clicking on on what and and just
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hours later you could know yeah, within
hours you can even test out company
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product names or service names or the
kinds of things that people would have
389
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paid big bucks to research companies in
the past. You know, basically the
390
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really smart google advertising people,
they don't presume to know these things.
391
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They just figure out what works and
what doesn't. Maybe they try to
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understand the intent, but they go with
with, they do a lot of great testing.
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Another thing that he talks about a
disturbing number of advertised google
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advertisers and this could be google
shopping ads could be, you know, the
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paper clicks on the search engines, it
could be uh, google display network, it
396
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could be advertising on Youtube. So
there's a lot of different ways that
397
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you can, you can advertise but he talks
about conversion tracking. You've got
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to connect it to your google analytics
and figure out what what people are
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doing. Because there's a lot of people
that are running these ads and not
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connecting it to figure out what
happens after they click on the add and
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what's even worse their advertisers
that are sending people simply to their
402
00:29:04.490 --> 00:29:09.030
home page, there's not a specific
landing landing pages are not hard to
403
00:29:09.030 --> 00:29:12.800
set up. You should have a landing page
for each of your different ads so you
404
00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:16.740
can see what what happens. Another
thing that he talks about here are the
405
00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:21.320
keywords and he explains keywords and
they're not this mysterious thing that
406
00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:24.620
you know I think a lot of people have
had maybe some bad experiences with S.
407
00:29:24.620 --> 00:29:27.460
E. O. People that maybe didn't know
what they were doing or didn't know how
408
00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:32.650
to explain it or but he talks about
keywords, he explains that what was so
409
00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:36.570
interesting about that is even if you
aren't a google advertisers, the more
410
00:29:36.570 --> 00:29:39.350
you understand about keywords, the more
effective you're gonna be as a content
411
00:29:39.350 --> 00:29:46.040
marketer and generating content to get
found on search engines. So yeah sc Oh
412
00:29:46.050 --> 00:29:53.560
please. So another thing that was
really, really important and if you are
413
00:29:53.560 --> 00:29:57.270
the ceo of a company and you know your
people are doing, you know let's say
414
00:29:57.280 --> 00:30:02.250
search advertising paper click you
should say are you guys doing
415
00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:07.160
conversion tracking? The good ones?
Will say yeah we're doing that. We're
416
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.890
not just trying to figure out what
happens afterwards. Another thing is re
417
00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:15.950
marketing where you place a pixel on
someone's website. The same with
418
00:30:15.950 --> 00:30:19.940
facebook advertising where you can for
free you can people that come to your
419
00:30:19.940 --> 00:30:24.580
site you can then advertise that and
they don't convert, you don't capture
420
00:30:24.580 --> 00:30:29.160
their email address. You place a pixel
on their site and their computer device,
421
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.380
whatever they're using. And then when
they go to facebook, they're going to
422
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.130
see ads for you. So they're kind of,
you start getting followed around and
423
00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:38.780
you do it just enough. So it's not
creeping people out and you know, but
424
00:30:38.790 --> 00:30:41.900
it's really, really effective and you
should be doing re marketing if you're
425
00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:46.350
doing any kind of google advertising
and it's not that hard to do. And it
426
00:30:46.350 --> 00:30:50.750
really, really makes a big difference.
And I mean, I mean guilty if you want
427
00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:55.590
to use that term of clicking on an ad
or going to a website at some point and
428
00:30:55.600 --> 00:30:58.970
moving on and then I saw the ad over
the next couple of weeks and then
429
00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:03.720
ultimately it was reminded about it and
looked into it again and bought it. So
430
00:31:03.730 --> 00:31:08.030
it wasn't creepy. And I yeah, I
appreciate it. But you know, another
431
00:31:08.030 --> 00:31:11.970
thing, a similar thing he talked about
in the book, they have an entire
432
00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:17.640
chapter, okay, this is a book on google
ads, write an entire chapter on email
433
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:22.530
marketing. That's not google as and
Youtube advertising, Youtube
434
00:31:22.530 --> 00:31:26.350
advertising all this stuff. But if you
are doing any kind of advertising on
435
00:31:26.350 --> 00:31:29.930
google and you are not doing email
marketing, you're doing it wrong,
436
00:31:29.930 --> 00:31:34.500
you're wasting your money. It was a
very good chapter on what works well.
437
00:31:34.510 --> 00:31:37.800
And they really zeroed in on what works
well with email marketing. And I'll
438
00:31:37.800 --> 00:31:42.380
just give you a hint, keep it human,
don't You're not going to bore people
439
00:31:42.390 --> 00:31:46.140
have some something that seems
realistic and, and interesting. I
440
00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:51.020
thought they did a they did a great job.
You know, at the end of his book, this
441
00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:56.520
is the biggest, I think it's the big he
has the biggest google advertising
442
00:31:56.530 --> 00:32:00.670
agency in Australia. It's still one of
the biggest in the world. And he has a
443
00:32:00.670 --> 00:32:07.720
whole chapter on what you need to do if
you want to hire a google ad agency.
444
00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:13.330
And what was probably surprising to
some readers is he saying, try to do it
445
00:32:13.330 --> 00:32:16.810
yourself at first so that you'll start
to understand and benefit from it.
446
00:32:16.810 --> 00:32:20.650
Don't completely outsource this to
someone else because there's so much
447
00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:25.110
that your organization can learn. Let's
say you need somebody like their firm
448
00:32:25.110 --> 00:32:30.980
to get you started, that's fine, but
stay involved because there's a lot
449
00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:34.650
that you're going to learn about your
customers, that if you all sort of
450
00:32:34.660 --> 00:32:38.390
outsource it to an agency, you're not
going to benefit from that. So I
451
00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:41.610
thought that was very interesting as
well. Yeah, not the least. There was is
452
00:32:41.610 --> 00:32:44.930
the lifetime value of your customer,
which helps you justify all the spin
453
00:32:44.930 --> 00:32:48.810
that you do elsewhere, Right? So yeah,
that's one of the first concept that
454
00:32:48.810 --> 00:32:51.140
they cover in the book important. I
think that's true. Yeah, I forgot to
455
00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:53.930
mention that. And that's one that is in
a number of books and people seem to
456
00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:58.900
forget about it. And I've even spoken
to Cfos say, what's the lifetime value
457
00:32:58.900 --> 00:33:03.310
of your customer? This one fella, Not a
dumb guy, but he's got a head in front
458
00:33:03.310 --> 00:33:08.110
of it that way. Well, we keep our
customers for about 20 years and when
459
00:33:08.110 --> 00:33:11.350
they spend about X amount each year, I
said, Okay, so if you can just get one,
460
00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:16.290
do you realize it's worth many millions
of dollars? Yeah. Oh, I haven't been
461
00:33:16.290 --> 00:33:19.880
accounting for it that way. You know,
maybe that gives you the justification
462
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.720
to go out and use revenues to generate
the client over a period of time, it's
463
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.500
going to generate profit, you know,
another thing that I failed to mention,
464
00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:31.200
which is just amazing and often
forgotten about google advertising is
465
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:36.130
that the better your google ads work,
the lower the price you're gonna pay,
466
00:33:36.130 --> 00:33:41.550
it gets cheaper if you've got the right
combination of you, you understand the
467
00:33:41.550 --> 00:33:46.480
clients, your customers search intent,
you create ads that are effective, you
468
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:50.550
bring them to your site, you get them
to take action. I mean, google can see
469
00:33:50.550 --> 00:33:55.430
all this. They want people to have a
good experience, you know, finding what
470
00:33:55.430 --> 00:33:59.130
they're looking for, even if it's an ad
or buying something. And he said it was
471
00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:03.450
sort of like you run a Tv commercial
for your car dealership
472
00:34:04.540 --> 00:34:08.600
on the local television station and it
works so well that the television
473
00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:11.460
station says, you know, that's working
so well, we're gonna charge you less
474
00:34:11.460 --> 00:34:16.210
for it. There's no one, no one else
does that. Yeah, Yeah. It's the magic
475
00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:19.810
of on and and you know, you don't pay
if they don't click it also. Right? So
476
00:34:19.810 --> 00:34:23.480
it's that's the beauty of online
advertising. Well, there's so much of
477
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:28.100
this book. His one takeaway was kind of
back to what you're saying about
478
00:34:28.100 --> 00:34:31.949
testing, be open minded, bi curious B
test if you've tested before, guess
479
00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:36.690
what things have changed. It's time
it's time to test again, right? Maybe
480
00:34:36.690 --> 00:34:40.880
it's a B. T. Always be testing, right?
Yeah, Yeah. Never, never stopped doing
481
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:46.250
that. And uh constant iteration, but
always always be testing things, Even
482
00:34:46.250 --> 00:34:50.120
little things because you start to
stumble upon things that make your that
483
00:34:50.120 --> 00:34:54.960
make you more successful. Yeah. A
little bit like the facebook book, this
484
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.850
book really isn't just an in depth
explanation of google ads, it's really
485
00:34:58.850 --> 00:35:02.690
a book about successful marketing
principles and in that sense, I think
486
00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:05.850
it kind of over delivers on what I was
expecting, right? Not just how to use
487
00:35:05.850 --> 00:35:09.500
google ads, but also how it leaves you
with a great understanding of what
488
00:35:09.500 --> 00:35:13.840
makes great online marketing. Yeah.
Yeah. And so they're not and and he's
489
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:17.420
even saying he's even saying, look,
it's not all about google ads either.
490
00:35:17.430 --> 00:35:20.210
In other words, he'll be giving a talk
somewhere and they'll say we're only
491
00:35:20.210 --> 00:35:23.730
doing google ads and he'll say, well
are you all doing any facebook
492
00:35:23.730 --> 00:35:28.450
advertising? Oh no, he's like, no,
there's a lot of you need to be really
493
00:35:28.450 --> 00:35:33.680
no, no, no. Yeah, totally worthwhile
book. Excellent book. And I like that
494
00:35:33.680 --> 00:35:36.510
you've incorporated couple of these
because it's an area that I don't
495
00:35:36.510 --> 00:35:41.000
always study. So good choice. Alright,
Last up, we've got selling from the
496
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.050
heart how your authentic self cells you
by Larry Levine. And I think you know
497
00:35:45.050 --> 00:35:48.950
that Larry and I are friends, so full
disclosure. I think that selling from
498
00:35:48.950 --> 00:35:51.570
the heart kind of cuts right to the
core of what's wrong with most sales
499
00:35:51.570 --> 00:35:55.550
and marketing today. I'll tease people
with that. But maybe give us the low
500
00:35:55.550 --> 00:35:58.160
down on your interview with Larry Levy.
Yeah, maybe you should do it. It's
501
00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:02.730
funny. I was at the outbound conference,
the last one that was in person. So
502
00:36:02.730 --> 00:36:07.570
what is that like two years ago? Yeah.
And I remember seeing you standing
503
00:36:07.570 --> 00:36:11.580
there and you were talking to Larry
Levine and I walked by and I thought oh
504
00:36:11.580 --> 00:36:14.670
man that's Larry Levine, I should
introduce myself. And I thought no, no,
505
00:36:14.680 --> 00:36:17.730
come on, you don't want people you know
bothering him. It's like and I joked
506
00:36:17.730 --> 00:36:20.550
because he lives in L. A. He's a
Dodgers fan. It was like, you know, you
507
00:36:20.550 --> 00:36:23.540
see celebrities all over Los Angeles
since like I don't bother and let them
508
00:36:23.540 --> 00:36:28.200
eat their meal, you know? So now I've
interviewed him, but I still haven't
509
00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:34.480
met in person. But it was a great
interview and he's very forthcoming and
510
00:36:34.490 --> 00:36:39.480
he does explain that something he talks
about the end of the book, uh this
511
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.320
terrible malady that's going around the
world in sales and it's not coronavirus,
512
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:48.050
it's called commission breath. Uh huh.
And if you're being used that phrase,
513
00:36:48.060 --> 00:36:53.550
yeah, if you're being inauthentic,
people can smell that a mile away,
514
00:36:53.560 --> 00:36:58.750
don't try and fool humans. And so he
really steered into that over the over
515
00:36:58.750 --> 00:37:02.540
the years and said, you know, I'm just
I really I'm going to try and help
516
00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:07.930
people. And he wanted to be kind, he
became more interested in his customers
517
00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:13.210
and just honest with folks. And there
are a couple just real pearls that I
518
00:37:13.210 --> 00:37:16.690
pulled out of this, even things that,
yeah, it works great with sales, but it
519
00:37:16.700 --> 00:37:20.040
also works well with marketing. And one
of the ones that really just hit me
520
00:37:20.040 --> 00:37:27.850
over the head was a great salesperson
is a student of their clients. Problems.
521
00:37:28.730 --> 00:37:32.830
They can never get enough information
about the problems their clients have
522
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:39.030
and how they can better understand them
and how they might be able to help them.
523
00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.260
And basically, I'm somebody who is
being sold to all the time. A lot of
524
00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:46.700
listeners probably are. I know you are.
How rare is it for somebody to come
525
00:37:46.710 --> 00:37:50.380
forward and saying, I think I kind of
understand what some of the issues are
526
00:37:50.390 --> 00:37:54.500
that you're facing. Never. Yeah, I got
good stuff here. You need to do. You
527
00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:58.050
want my stuff? Yeah. You want my stuff?
Let me talk about me, let me talk about,
528
00:37:58.050 --> 00:38:03.950
you know, just the self orientation is,
you really can see it two miles off and
529
00:38:04.020 --> 00:38:07.330
There's, there's so many rich things in
here and it's, it's funny how he ties
530
00:38:07.330 --> 00:38:11.350
together so many things from the over
50 sales books that have been on the
531
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:14.480
marketing podcast. But another thing
that I really liked was he talked about
532
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.480
the biggest problem with salespeople
today. Is there consistently
533
00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:24.800
inconsistent with how they go about
developing business, which I mean like
534
00:38:24.810 --> 00:38:29.890
uh Jeb blunt for instance, he'll say
the number one reason for sales in the
535
00:38:29.900 --> 00:38:35.210
primary reason for failure in sales is
a failure to prospect period. And Mark
536
00:38:35.210 --> 00:38:37.620
Connor, all these guys, they'll,
they'll, they'll all talk about that
537
00:38:37.620 --> 00:38:41.430
you have to be consistent. Um, it's
sort of like learning a new language or
538
00:38:41.430 --> 00:38:45.800
working out, but what they do is they
go feast and famine. And he says that's
539
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:49.470
one of the, one of the biggest problems.
And another thing that I found
540
00:38:49.470 --> 00:38:53.390
interesting that I've I've seen in
several other books is he says that the
541
00:38:53.390 --> 00:38:59.650
one skill that every salesperson needs
to develop and really develop well how
542
00:38:59.650 --> 00:39:05.570
to use the phone, I just can't know.
I'm somebody who came a lot came around
543
00:39:05.570 --> 00:39:09.750
while we had was the phone. But I I
could see how uh that's such a
544
00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:13.200
challenge, maybe more for younger
people, a whole new generation of
545
00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:17.050
people that don't even know what that's
like. Yeah, so it's, they'd rather just
546
00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:21.680
send things with text or social
messages or emails. Right? Yeah, yeah.
547
00:39:21.690 --> 00:39:24.890
And another concept that's in the book
that it's funny. After I interviewed
548
00:39:24.890 --> 00:39:27.510
him, I had a listener contact me and
say, hey, we're looking for somebody to
549
00:39:27.510 --> 00:39:31.400
talk to us about, you know, a servant
leadership. And I said, oh my goodness,
550
00:39:31.410 --> 00:39:36.840
I just interviewed him. He talks about
servant led, uh, sales leadership. And
551
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:43.970
he talks about being service oriented
rather than being reactive. Yeah. And
552
00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:46.330
modeling the behavior that you're
looking for, right? So if you're a
553
00:39:46.330 --> 00:39:49.510
sales leader, you want to be modeling
the behavior that you're exiting from
554
00:39:49.510 --> 00:39:53.720
your team, it's not do what I say, do
what it do what I do, right? And also,
555
00:39:53.730 --> 00:39:59.860
he talks about providing service,
meaning, not being reactive, but
556
00:39:59.860 --> 00:40:05.840
instead uh anticipating what a customer
might be needing beforehand. He even
557
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:11.280
says to ask them that, right? Yeah. I
mean, that's his his one thing he
558
00:40:11.290 --> 00:40:15.180
thought listeners could do is hey,
become sales minded servant sales. My
559
00:40:15.180 --> 00:40:19.090
discernment, right? Ask customers how
they would like to be served and their
560
00:40:19.090 --> 00:40:23.050
jaw will drop because no one has ever
asked this question to them, right?
561
00:40:23.050 --> 00:40:26.680
They can't even believe that you're
asking it. Oh yeah, I would be, I would
562
00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:31.160
be the same way and there's just so
many great gems in here. And again,
563
00:40:31.170 --> 00:40:36.290
this is another one that applies to
content. It applies to sales. He says,
564
00:40:36.290 --> 00:40:41.500
instead of worrying about being
interesting, we need first to be
565
00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:47.710
interested. So some interest in your
customer, whether you're in sales or
566
00:40:47.710 --> 00:40:51.550
marketing and of course to do that, you
have to get to know them. That's why he
567
00:40:51.550 --> 00:40:56.580
talked about referrals as such a
problem because he, he argues that
568
00:40:56.590 --> 00:40:59.730
sales people just don't know their
customers as well as they think they do.
569
00:40:59.910 --> 00:41:02.890
Yeah. He very often refers to these
kinds of sales people that are thinking
570
00:41:02.890 --> 00:41:05.720
about themselves and pretending to like,
you know, to care about the customer is
571
00:41:05.720 --> 00:41:09.390
empty suits. Yes, that's right. That's
right. He even had a sticker he sent me
572
00:41:09.390 --> 00:41:13.620
that said no empty suits. No empty
suits. I thought he made it just for me.
573
00:41:13.620 --> 00:41:18.430
But apparently he uses at all uses it
all the time. You know, one other super
574
00:41:18.430 --> 00:41:23.240
tactical, great idea he had was that
when you're selling to an organization,
575
00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:29.020
You need to get intimately acquainted
with at least six people inside every
576
00:41:29.020 --> 00:41:33.420
single one of your accounts. And I just
that I thought back and I thought, yep,
577
00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:36.740
that's how I lost a few over the over
the years because I couldn't I couldn't
578
00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:41.100
get through or I never bothered to, as
they say, walk the halls, just find out
579
00:41:41.100 --> 00:41:44.660
what's going on. Sometimes we call that
selling high and wide, right? Because
580
00:41:44.670 --> 00:41:48.120
you only have one connection and then
that connection connection moves on or
581
00:41:48.130 --> 00:41:52.060
something goes trouble with that
relationship. You're gone. Yeah. That's
582
00:41:52.060 --> 00:41:55.530
all you had. That was the only, what's
the thing called? The Piton? When
583
00:41:55.530 --> 00:42:01.960
you're climbing a mountain face, you
only have one when it goes you go. Yeah.
584
00:42:01.970 --> 00:42:06.290
And uh it's almost like I I could just
see this on a KPI sheet. Like how many
585
00:42:06.290 --> 00:42:10.910
people do you know at your new client?
Oh, just the person I'm selling too.
586
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:15.280
Well, you better get down there and
start figuring out how to to do more of
587
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:19.270
a swarming offense there. And how can
you really say that you're trying to
588
00:42:19.270 --> 00:42:22.820
really serve this customer? If you only
understand the perspective of one
589
00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:27.560
person inside this organization, Right?
So I think that speaks to his whole
590
00:42:27.560 --> 00:42:30.050
point about being authentic of being
genuine is you have to really have to
591
00:42:30.050 --> 00:42:33.060
understand what they're trying to do
because sometimes even your best coach
592
00:42:33.060 --> 00:42:36.810
may not know exactly all the right path
to take to navigate the company and
593
00:42:36.810 --> 00:42:41.230
everything. Yeah. Sorry. If you hear my
co host for my podcast barking in the
594
00:42:41.230 --> 00:42:47.540
background, there it is some federal
employee in a blue suit delivering mail
595
00:42:47.540 --> 00:42:51.760
is just size and nuts. The darn guy
keeps showing up even though he barks
596
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:55.550
at him. What's in that box? Yes, that's
right. A couple other things he talked
597
00:42:55.550 --> 00:42:59.970
about which were just universal, not
just for sales. He says it's the post
598
00:42:59.970 --> 00:43:05.120
sale where the magic happens. And he
said that was always his secret sauce.
599
00:43:05.700 --> 00:43:09.410
You know, it's, it's not about getting
the money moving on. The real money is
600
00:43:09.410 --> 00:43:13.560
in after you make that first sale, get
further in, meet those other six people
601
00:43:13.560 --> 00:43:17.290
find out what's going on in the
organization. Once you're in, that's an
602
00:43:17.290 --> 00:43:20.900
invaluable opportunity that is too
often squandered by somebody who runs
603
00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:25.240
off to the next to the next sale. But
before we wrap up, I've just got to say,
604
00:43:25.250 --> 00:43:30.050
I think there was only like 10 chapters
and one of the chapters was all about
605
00:43:30.050 --> 00:43:34.780
continuing education. And so people
listening to this are probably into
606
00:43:34.790 --> 00:43:39.800
educating themselves. But he talks
about how If you're a sales person and
607
00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:47.430
you have not spent one of your income
of your own money on your success,
608
00:43:47.900 --> 00:43:52.380
you're not educating yourself. But he
talks about one of the big things that
609
00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:55.890
helped him a lot and I know this sounds
like a, you know, a plug for the market
610
00:43:55.890 --> 00:43:59.710
book podcast, but he said he started
reading a lot, He read a lot of books,
611
00:43:59.710 --> 00:44:03.060
he still does read a lot of books, but
he just talks about all these different
612
00:44:03.060 --> 00:44:06.720
ways that you should be continuing to
educate yourself, don't wait for your
613
00:44:06.720 --> 00:44:14.600
company to be educating your yourself.
And another thing that he he even says
614
00:44:14.600 --> 00:44:17.690
like, what was the last podcast you
listened to or what was the last sales
615
00:44:17.690 --> 00:44:22.750
book you read? And uh I mean even a
knuckleheaded podcast host can read one
616
00:44:22.750 --> 00:44:29.560
book a week. I know a guy who does that.
So think about fishing books are, I
617
00:44:29.560 --> 00:44:32.680
mean, not to get off topic here, but
you've got somebody who's crammed
618
00:44:32.680 --> 00:44:37.590
probably 10, 15 years worth of
experience in into just a few pages
619
00:44:37.590 --> 00:44:41.230
that you can read and you know, in a
week, right, where else you gonna get
620
00:44:41.230 --> 00:44:46.280
that for 15 bucks or whatever does it
cost? Right. I mean time in to to
621
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:49.040
benefit out? You probably can't be
books. Yeah, a lot of these books, it's
622
00:44:49.040 --> 00:44:53.040
almost like the I think I I often
wonder if the ink is made from the
623
00:44:53.040 --> 00:44:57.360
author's blood because they pour
themselves into it. I've never written
624
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:01.060
a book. I probably never will. But I
could, you can't imagine what it's
625
00:45:01.060 --> 00:45:07.670
right like writing a book and they It's
like you're spending 4-6 hours 1-1 with
626
00:45:07.670 --> 00:45:13.590
this author who is sharing with you
what works just, it's amazing. That's
627
00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:17.730
why I loved the podcast because I just
and the more I learned, the more I
628
00:45:17.730 --> 00:45:21.340
realized, I don't know, so, but you
know, another chapter, an entire
629
00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:26.610
chapter was on content. Okay, now this
is a sales guy. He is like one of the
630
00:45:26.610 --> 00:45:30.820
masters of the universe, but he talks
about how sales professionals learn how
631
00:45:30.820 --> 00:45:35.430
to digitally fish in the same online
ocean that their clients and prospects
632
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:39.790
educate themselves in. And he, even
when he does training, he'll ask people,
633
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:45.490
do you think it's easier or more
difficult now to prospect? And it's
634
00:45:45.490 --> 00:45:48.190
interesting to hear what people say?
They all say. It's harder. He says he
635
00:45:48.190 --> 00:45:52.710
thinks it's easier now because you can
get so much while it's harder to get
636
00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:57.860
through. You can start to find out more
information about the prospect or their
637
00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:03.090
prospects company and you know, even if
you are not producing your own content
638
00:46:03.100 --> 00:46:06.260
or you don't have a marketing
department or whatever. He talks about
639
00:46:06.260 --> 00:46:11.280
how every salesperson can build their
own content library, because every you
640
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:16.250
collect all this information that your
prospects can find helpful. Well, you
641
00:46:16.250 --> 00:46:19.800
can use that. You don't have to use
that for just one prospect. You can use
642
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:24.810
it for all your prospects. And it's
interesting. I mean, he was enormously
643
00:46:24.810 --> 00:46:29.640
successful and he's basically showing
you what he did. So I'll stop talking
644
00:46:29.640 --> 00:46:34.040
about it. But it's a tough industry in
a tough industry Tuesday. Yes, copy
645
00:46:34.040 --> 00:46:38.070
machines, yes, office equipment, that
kind of stuff, right? Like pretty
646
00:46:38.070 --> 00:46:42.720
commoditized. But that's why him being
authentic and trying to help Being with
647
00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:46.360
the customer, right? Being genuine is
the differentiator, right? It wasn't
648
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:52.230
the equipment. So his one takeaway for
listeners was just to hold yourself 100
649
00:46:52.230 --> 00:46:55.780
accountable for your own personal
growth. Right back to that continuing
650
00:46:55.780 --> 00:47:00.020
education you mentioned a minute ago.
So obviously I'm biased because he and
651
00:47:00.020 --> 00:47:02.800
I are friends. But I personally think
that every sales professional, both old
652
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.040
news should read the book. I really
think marketers can benefit from from
653
00:47:06.040 --> 00:47:10.050
it as well because it's about being
genuine and authentic. And that leads
654
00:47:10.050 --> 00:47:13.810
to all the most effective activities in
both sales and marketing in my past.
655
00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:18.880
Absolutely. I've got hundreds of books
like thinking back up you just said,
656
00:47:18.890 --> 00:47:24.240
and I even I have a feeling that I get
more marketing ideas for reading sales
657
00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:28.600
books sometimes that I might get from
marketing books. It's not a fair
658
00:47:28.600 --> 00:47:32.490
comparison because I'm learning about
something. But when I read a sales book,
659
00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:37.350
all I can think about is, oh man, they
could these guys could be using this or
660
00:47:37.350 --> 00:47:41.800
this would be helpful for them or this
kind of content or you know, that type
661
00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.790
of things. Well, it's one thing I
really love about your show is that
662
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:48.370
it's all a continuum right from the
very, very top of the funnel, all the
663
00:47:48.370 --> 00:47:51.960
way to the very bottom of the funnel
and really post funnel and you're not
664
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.740
just focusing on one little pieces of
that. Right? So I think your your show
665
00:47:55.740 --> 00:47:59.320
is really the most broad spectrum and
being able to touch all those things.
666
00:47:59.330 --> 00:48:05.020
Yeah, I know we're supposed to mitch
but I do this for fun and that's why
667
00:48:05.020 --> 00:48:08.700
I'm I'm always so surprised how many
sales people listen to the marketing
668
00:48:08.710 --> 00:48:12.810
podcast. Either that it was just more
vocal because I I hear from these
669
00:48:12.810 --> 00:48:16.590
people, but it also brings to mind the
story from Mark Hunters last book of
670
00:48:16.590 --> 00:48:19.970
Mine for sales where he was consulting
with a client and there were these two
671
00:48:19.970 --> 00:48:24.540
young salespeople and they were doing
really, really well to the point where
672
00:48:24.540 --> 00:48:28.310
the client thought that these guys
might be doing something illegal. Did
673
00:48:28.310 --> 00:48:31.770
you hear this story? Yes, I remember
this. And so they said to Mark like
674
00:48:31.770 --> 00:48:35.020
Mark, you know while you're doing this
project we need you to kind of keep an
675
00:48:35.020 --> 00:48:38.480
eye on these two because we just don't
know what they're doing. And it turned
676
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:42.480
out they were spending all their free
time with the marketing people. Yeah.
677
00:48:42.490 --> 00:48:47.070
See there you go. So it was like you
say, the best earners are the best
678
00:48:47.070 --> 00:48:50.960
learners. Yes, that's right. The big
earners are the big learners of the big
679
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:55.430
earners. That's right. Yes. Well that
is it this month's books all phenomenal,
680
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:58.940
all phenomenal. I'll former X and I
love them all. Um, what do we got
681
00:48:58.940 --> 00:49:02.580
coming up on the market? But podcasts?
Well, if this episode wasn't long
682
00:49:02.580 --> 00:49:06.010
enough, next time we're gonna talk
about five books, we'll try to go fast.
683
00:49:06.010 --> 00:49:10.940
Yes, I'm sorry. Um, I know. Well,
hopefully somebody listen to this while
684
00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:14.000
they were doing it a long drive
somewhere. I hope there is somebody
685
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.670
driving these days. The first is
sustainable marketing. How to drive
686
00:49:17.670 --> 00:49:23.900
profits with purpose by Michelle,
Carville, Gemma, Butler and Grant Evans.
687
00:49:24.670 --> 00:49:30.670
They're british and, and grant
guarantee he's well, so I, I hope I got
688
00:49:30.670 --> 00:49:34.940
his name right, binge marketing. The
best scenario for building your brand
689
00:49:34.940 --> 00:49:41.710
by car lane post MMA, My first dutch
author I've interviewed activate brand
690
00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:45.840
purpose, how to harness the power of
movements to transform your company by
691
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.950
scott goodson and chip walker. Sounds
fascinating. Yeah. Uh the undefeated
692
00:49:50.950 --> 00:49:54.490
marketing system, How to grow your
business and build your audience using
693
00:49:54.490 --> 00:50:00.110
the secret formula that elects
presidents by Phillip stutts And
694
00:50:00.110 --> 00:50:05.260
finally marketing 5.0 Technology for
humanity by Philip Kotler. The father
695
00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:10.410
of modern marketing. He's going to be
90 years old this spring and his co
696
00:50:10.410 --> 00:50:16.030
authors are Hermawan cartagena and I
wan Setiawan and I interviewed dr
697
00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:21.280
Kotler for episode 100 a few years ago
about marketing four point oh, so
698
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:25.030
anyway, that's it for this month's B
two B growth Show Book Talk. Thanks for
699
00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:28.280
staying with us to learn more about the
marketing book podcast, visit marketing
700
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:31.690
book podcast dot com and to learn more
about James in his excellent book, the
701
00:50:31.690 --> 00:50:39.390
perfect clothes visit pure mirror dot
com. And that's spelled P U R E M U I R
702
00:50:39.770 --> 00:50:43.080
dot com. And as I mentioned earlier, if
either of us can recommend any
703
00:50:43.080 --> 00:50:46.120
marketing or sales, books or other
resources for whatever situation you
704
00:50:46.120 --> 00:50:49.700
find yourself in or what you'd like to
learn more about, please feel free to
705
00:50:49.700 --> 00:50:53.100
connect with us on linkedin where we
can chat and we'll do our best to get
706
00:50:53.100 --> 00:50:59.780
you pointed in the right direction. But
please please include a message with
707
00:50:59.780 --> 00:51:04.150
your invitation to connect on linkedin.
Otherwise we're gonna, we may miss it
708
00:51:04.160 --> 00:51:09.700
and we're going to just assume europe a
filthy spam. But and remember the words
709
00:51:09.700 --> 00:51:14.280
of the late great Jim Rohn who said
formal education will make you a living
710
00:51:14.580 --> 00:51:19.270
self education will make you a fortune,
Okay.
711
00:51:21.560 --> 00:51:25.380
Yeah. one of the things we've learned
about podcast audience growth is that
712
00:51:25.390 --> 00:51:30.230
word of mouth works. It works really,
really well actually. So if you love
713
00:51:30.230 --> 00:51:33.880
this show, it would be awesome if you
texted a friend to tell them about it.
714
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:37.660
And if you send me a text with a
screenshot of the text you sent to your
715
00:51:37.660 --> 00:51:41.670
friend meta, I know I'll send you a
copy of my book, content based
716
00:51:41.670 --> 00:51:45.480
networking, how to instantly connect
with anyone you want to know. My cell
717
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:53.480
phone number is 40749033 to 8. Happy
texting. Mhm Yeah.