12 Months of Learnings from B2B Growth in 15 Minutes | The Journey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth. 2 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.559 Welcome to the journey here on BtoB growth, where we're documenting our journey of 3 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:25.320 turning B two B growth into every BTV marketers favorite media brand and how you 4 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:28.839 can do the same for your market. My name is James Carberry and the 5 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:32.799 founder of sue Fish, and I'm usually joined by Dan Sanchez, our director 6 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:38.240 of audience Growth, but today joined by Benji Block, who just celebrated his 7 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:43.520 one year work anversary with sweet Fish, And as we were talking, we 8 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.000 were recording some other content this morning and Benji was like, man like, 9 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.560 maybe we should do a journey episode on the evolution of BDOB growth this past 10 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:55.240 year, just since since I've been at sweet Fish, because it has changed 11 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:59.240 a lot. We have learned and grown a lot. Some things we've done 12 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:00.920 that have been hard heard, some things that have that we've done that have 13 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.239 not worked the way we thought. And so Benji, I just kind of 14 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.280 want to pass it over to you. You know, what's the first thing 15 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:11.760 that you think of when you think about the evolution of B two B growth 16 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:15.519 since the time you've been here in the last twelve months, for every content 17 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.359 marketer that listens to be to be Growth. First, thanks for listening to 18 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:25.120 us consistently. But you'll all know, like we have our content pillars, 19 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:29.599 and we have the things that like we the schedules, the routines that we 20 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:34.120 get into, and so you have like the content calendar that you're used to, 21 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.760 and then probably you have aspirational goals for how that is going to grow 22 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.359 and evolve over time. And so for me coming into B two B Growth, 23 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:48.079 we're essentially running like a once a week maybe twice a week show last 24 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.719 October and it was like, okay, now we want to make this And 25 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.959 at one point B BE Growth was a daily show, but like to be 26 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.840 clear, it wasn't at that point when I was here, so that when 27 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.640 I got in, so it's okay, we need to make this a daily 28 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:07.079 show. And taking something from once a week to five times a week, 29 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:10.280 there's obviously a lift there. But I I like quickly jotted down, like 30 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:14.280 what are some great things that we learned from that and what are some hard 31 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.520 things. That amount of content is just a lot of content. So for 32 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:21.280 anyone in this game, you'll just know, like you probably have your core 33 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:24.120 blog posts, the things that you're doing, right, the podcast that you're 34 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:30.080 producing once a week, imagine scaling that essentially doing four or five times the 35 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.560 amount of work. So here's the quick version of what I would say we 36 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:37.719 learned from doing that one. I think actually it's great for a season, 37 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.719 like I would tell people if you want to just like get in front of 38 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:45.159 a lot of people, not just from only an awareness play, but like 39 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:51.199 making people know about your brand and having different audiences share your content. It 40 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.599 was great for us for a season to go like, we're gonna pump out 41 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.800 a lot of conversations, We're gonna do a lot of interviews, We're gonna 42 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.319 get shared to a lot of different audiences. We're going to create micro clips 43 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.080 for these people that we have on B two B growth, and we're gonna 44 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.400 like create assets for them so that they can put it on LinkedIn and people 45 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.960 can be like, oh, you're a rock star. Like that was really 46 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.360 fun. We didn't have a content like social engine really when I came in 47 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:20.599 to give people three pieces, three assets, and so building all of that 48 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:25.400 was really interesting. Great for creating content like at scale that like so you 49 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.800 can get to know people. Here's the other thing, like just peek behind 50 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:30.520 the curtain. When I got hired at sweet Fish, I didn't know a 51 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:32.960 lot of B two B marketers. So like, if you need to get 52 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:38.039 to know people in your market quickly, create a ton of content Like that 53 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:43.840 is such an easy way. Like set up a bunch of interviews, release 54 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.039 them quickly, and you're gonna get to know people very fast. I think 55 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:52.240 my LinkedIn follower account, James, when I came in to sweet Fish, 56 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.120 was like under five hundred. Like I didn't use LinkedIn really as a tool 57 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:01.080 at all. Now I think I like almost I'm nearing three thousands. So 58 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:04.000 if you want to be a friend, you want to be a connect I'd 59 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:09.599 love to love to do that on LinkedIn. But it's been a cool year. 60 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.439 A lot of that has come from B two B growth and just like 61 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:16.120 connecting with people that I hosted when we took it to a daily show and 62 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:21.199 then like their network slowly like those micro videos gaining gaining some attention. So 63 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.079 that's the good. You want the bad as well, James, from that, 64 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:29.879 give me the dirty, okay, So let's go to the bad side. 65 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.079 So when you're going from one episode a week to five episodes a week 66 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:36.720 and that much content. One, I think we've like just to be very 67 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:43.199 transparent. I don't think it was awesome for building affinity. You're giving your 68 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:47.319 platform that you've built to so many people who have Again, like we talked 69 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:53.240 about the importance of focus, it's really hard when you're having that many conversations 70 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:57.639 to have people that all kind of believe the same thing you believe about marketing. 71 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:00.759 So sometimes you'd end up in conversations where you're like, I don't want 72 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.439 to run over you and like really like put you in a corner so that 73 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:09.600 you say our point of view. So like I find myself hosting episodes where 74 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:14.160 I'm like, well I don't fully agree with this strategy or like it's slightly 75 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:18.319 off, but how it's it's like okay, it's fine, you know. 76 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:23.399 Like, and I think that that side of building affinity was harder when you're 77 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:26.360 just like coming out with that much content. The other thing too, for 78 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:29.839 me, is like you need to set up rhythms and your content to where 79 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.079 it's good for your long term like health, especially in podcast and video. 80 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:39.000 How you show up to those conversations. The level of energy you have matters 81 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:43.199 tremendously. So when you're doing that many episodes and you're subject to that many 82 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.360 different people's calendars. You're not gonna bring a percent to every one of those 83 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:50.759 because you're doing so much content all the time. And to me that's like, 84 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:55.040 like, again, I do think I'd recommend it for a season, 85 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.639 but I don't think I could recommend it for the long haul just because of 86 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:00.720 how much it can take out of you. And then the other thing is 87 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:06.000 too imagine having a super Bowl every day, Like, how are you gonna 88 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:12.000 grow hype for a show if you're coming out with a new one every day? 89 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.800 The person that was interviewed on yesterday's episode, they don't feel special today 90 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:24.199 because their interview is already old. So how you facilitate like that content for 91 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:28.800 that piece to feel special, for it to feel like you actually got the 92 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:31.360 most out of it. In my opinion, bringing it to a daily show, 93 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:36.279 we started to realize like, ah, this isn't great for repurposing, 94 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:41.920 right, this isn't great for like content distribution. It's just a lot. 95 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.199 And then all of a sudden that episodes old and we're onto the next one. 96 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:46.199 So I know that was a lot, but what do you think about 97 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:51.120 those kind of key to key takeaways. Yeah, those are all really interesting 98 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:56.879 for me to hear. The one that I think the biggest ah ha for 99 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:00.199 me over the past year, since you've been on the team and so much 100 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:04.959 of your creative thinking and strategic thinking around the show has forced us to level 101 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:10.360 it up. But that piece around what we were doing was not great for 102 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:15.920 affinity building, having all of these different guests all the time with various points 103 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:18.959 of view that we may or may not agree with. But if you've been 104 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:23.040 listening to this show for very long, you know that kind of the origin 105 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.040 of B two B growth was content based networking. What I wrote the book 106 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.920 about a few years ago. We wanted to build relationships with as many B 107 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.120 two B marketers as we could, and inviting them onto our platform was a 108 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.759 way for us to build one to one relationships. And as we've evolved our 109 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:41.519 point of view over the last few years, we've realized that no, you 110 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.560 actually you can do content based networking, and you can also do it in 111 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.920 a way that still helps you as the host of the show, the person 112 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:54.600 who is trying to build authority in your market. You can do it in 113 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:59.279 a way that builds affinity for your host, but also allows you to do 114 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:01.800 content based networking, but you have to think about it differently. And so 115 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:05.560 what I really like that we've that we've done in the last year to solve 116 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.079 for that whole Like, hey, what we've been doing for the last six 117 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:15.920 years wasn't necessarily optimized for affinity, was that we started introducing different formats to 118 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:20.319 the show that put our personalities me, you Dan, sometimes de Noor pops 119 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:26.199 in. There's different personalities from sweet Fish, the company that's producing this show 120 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.759 that ultimately we want to build affinity towards sweet Fish because we want b two 121 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:35.120 be marketers to to buy our podcast production services. There's no like we're not 122 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.720 pretending to be Mother Teresa over here, like this is a business. We're 123 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.320 trying to build affinity so that we can sell our services for our company, 124 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:48.679 invest in our people and all the things. And the original research that we 125 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.080 first started with, which was like, Okay, how can we still do 126 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:58.480 interviews but do them in a different way that allows us to kind of be 127 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.879 in the driver's seat of the point the view of the show, and original 128 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:07.159 research was great for that. What was challenging about original research was that it 129 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:13.159 was really hard to get people to want to just contribute to our original research 130 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:18.200 without getting to be like the spotlight in an episode of this top one marketing 131 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.000 podcasts. So the reason people would say yes to being on the show is 132 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.279 because Hey, I get an entire episode that's about me. Wasn't great necessarily 133 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.320 for building affinity for our points of view for sweet Fish, and so we 134 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.279 were like, Okay, well if we can include them in original research round 135 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:37.960 up what a hundred B two B marketers said about these fifteen different questions that 136 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:43.399 we asked. It solves the problem of building affinity, But we also found 137 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:48.440 that it was really a really heavy lift to find people that were okay with 138 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:52.000 contributing to our original research without having an entire episode about them. So we're 139 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.360 still trying to iterate and figure out how to do original research. But what 140 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:01.080 I think original research did for us it was our first for a into really 141 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:05.039 getting creative with the format of BtoB growth and starting to think about what I'm 142 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:11.080 now calling content franchises. My friend Benjamin Shapiro from the Martek podcast used this 143 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.879 phrase with me a couple of weeks ago, and I was like, Oh, 144 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.960 I really like that, But thinking about content franchises with original research being 145 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.600 a content franchise of b twob growth the journey this episode right now, where 146 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.559 we're documenting our journey of of trying to become you know, every BDWO B 147 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:33.879 marketers favorite media brand that's a content franchise are Echo Chamber episodes, that's a 148 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:39.559 franchise, and starting to think about content franchises inside of your show as opposed 149 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.120 to being locked into a singular format where you interview an expert in your field. 150 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.679 And and I think people are starting to get a little tired of of 151 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.120 that, and people still listen to interviews, but there's no reason that you 152 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.840 just have to do interviews. And this was really us drinking our own champagne 153 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.440 for the last year, experimenting with original research, experimenting with content franchises. 154 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:07.000 And what's so cool is because we've been doing that, now we are in 155 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.639 a different position to be able to advise our clients who were producing their show 156 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.960 to say, hey, you don't just need to do you know, an 157 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.519 interview with an expert in your field anymore, or one of your ideal buyers. 158 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.399 What if you, you know, once a week, did this kind 159 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.279 of episode or that kind of episode. What if you documented your journey. 160 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.240 What if you were talking about what your buyers are talking about on the internet, 161 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.919 like what we do with Echo Chamber. And so as we are continuing 162 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:37.080 to iterate and figure out how to add variety to be to be growth so 163 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.720 that it can actually build affinity, we're gonna be able to transfer those learnings 164 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.840 to our clients. And that that's what gets me super pumped up. One 165 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:50.360 of my AHA moments was actually, uh, there's a YouTuber Peter Voog He 166 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.919 like talks to entrepreneurs, specifically like young entrepreneurs, and uh, he does 167 00:11:54.919 --> 00:12:00.200 this thing called Tesla Talks, and it's just like this under ten minutes while 168 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.559 he's driving his Tesla, like and and he puts it out on his podcast. 169 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.679 Like I listened to his podcast more than I watch his YouTube videos. 170 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.919 But on face value, it's like, Okay, maybe you're doing this like 171 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:16.720 because you thought it was a cool content franchise. But there's also this part 172 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.320 of it that's like, well, there's a utility to it. Anytime you're 173 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.519 in your car, it reminds him to record an episode. And so like, 174 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.200 I think sometimes we set the bar really high for like the quality of 175 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.320 like is the mic gonna sound good enough in a Tesla, is you know 176 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:35.080 in your car? Like is that gonna work? But for him, the 177 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:41.519 content he's putting out is quality enough right where it actually works. It works 178 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:45.879 from a perspective of what you're saying resonates with your audience, so it doesn't 179 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.320 matter as much that you're saying it in a car, and like I can 180 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.240 kind of hear your A C in the background. So when I think of 181 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.080 the last year, I think there was like the extreme of we need to 182 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.080 like get to as many of our ideal buyers as possible and have them on 183 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.559 the show, which did some good things for us. And we still continue 184 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:05.639 to do interviews and like we even are iterating behind the scenes on what the 185 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.480 future of interview shows could look like. But there's this like, Okay, 186 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:16.320 how do we bake in right, like record content batching that's something we're doing, 187 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.720 right, Like how does it fit into our schedule? Very similar to 188 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.960 like what he's doing with the Tesla talks, but like we can batch episodes. 189 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.039 That's a great idea, original research. We can have someone come in 190 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:33.240 do an interview, then do original research, so the barrier is lower, 191 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.000 right, but you're getting sort of two content pieces from them in the process. 192 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.679 So I think when I look at the last year, James, like, 193 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.960 I like change. We've had a lot of change, We've tried a 194 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:48.200 lot of things. But I think it's fun to see these different points that 195 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:52.320 we're hitting and all happening within like twelve months, and you get like, 196 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.799 if there's one thing you can say about B two B growth, it's definitely 197 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:01.799 that we never are settled for like we have it figured out. We know 198 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.559 that even if something's working really good right now content based networking, even like 199 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.440 I think this is great for you, it's like you wrote a book on 200 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.720 it and you can still talk about it in a way where it's like this 201 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:16.879 is a good idea, but there's times where you have to do different plays 202 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:20.000 or you have to try different things, and like you're always looking to evolve 203 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.360 it, and that, to me is is a key lesson in the story 204 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:26.320 of B two B growth as a podcast, and now it's growing right now 205 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:31.320 we're talking about media brands, which is bigger than even just a show, 206 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.000 And that's why I love that we're documenting it here on the journey. But 207 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:39.039 it just gets me excited because it's like twelve months we've had all these evolutions 208 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:41.639 you just think of, you know, months down the road, how much 209 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.799 more we'll just kind of continue to evolve and stumble into new things and lessons 210 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.480 learned and things that worked and didn't. So it's been fun to get to 211 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:52.480 do this with you. Man. When we're doing this next year for your 212 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.840 two year anniversary with Sweet Fish, God Willing, you know, we're going 213 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.120 to be talking about what Emily has been doing with the newsletter that we're gonna 214 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:05.799 be rolling out. We're going to have a lot to say about what we've 215 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.159 been doing on the s c O side, driving traffic to to be too 216 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.000 be growth, show dot com from Google, and continuing who knows how many 217 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.200 content franchises will have within you know, the show B two B growth. 218 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:22.519 And so I'm really excited about what's to come because we've got talent like you 219 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.159 that are constantly forcing us to level up and get better and think creatively, 220 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.159 think differently, because like we said all the time, there are so many 221 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:35.519 ways to win. Why limit ourselves and put ourselves in a box to say 222 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.639 podcasting has to be this way? I just don't think that's the case. 223 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.960 So dude, I am so so grateful that you've been on the team a 224 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.759 year. I hope we can do this again a year from now and tell 225 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:50.759 a story that's just as fun, if not even more fun. I love 226 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.679 it, man, It's been an honor, all right. So that wraps 227 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.759 up this episode of the journey. Remember there are a lot of ways to 228 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:04.200 win, and commodity content is the enemy. Focus on affinity over awareness and 229 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:08.039 for all things to GDP growth, visit b TWOB Growth Show dot com and 230 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:25.200 connect with us over on LinkedIn. That's a rap. If you enjoy today's 231 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:29.279 show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness. 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