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June 14, 2022

Authenticity Builds Brand, with Devin Reed

In this episode, Benji talks to Devin Reed, Head of Content Strategy at Gong.
We discuss, how to build credibility by being authentic and how to create a culture where creativity and innovation thrive.

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B2B Growth
In this episode, Benji talks to Devin Reed, Head of Content Strategy at Gong.
We discuss, how to build credibility by being authentic and how to create a culture where creativity and innovation thrive.
Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.079 Welcome back, to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 3 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:24.000 today excited to be joined by Devin Reid. Had A content strategy at 4 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.920 Gong. Devn welcome to the Showman, Yo. What's going on, Benjie? 5 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.280 Fantastic, excited to have you here and I want to say congratulations. 6 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.399 I was checking out linkedin before this and I'm like, man, you've been 7 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:41.920 at gone almost five years. So like you have you have seen some growth, 8 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.560 you has seen some things. I know this year you guys were running 9 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.600 super bowl ads and all sorts of stuff. So, okay, give me. 10 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:53.240 Give me like your favorite thing about your job right now and the work 11 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:57.759 that you're doing. The favorite thing about my job, and and I pitched 12 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:00.679 this, when you know I'm recruiting folks to join my team, because it's 13 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:06.120 true. It's like we are specifically coached to do the opposite of what everyone 14 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:10.159 else and be to be is doing. So never has someone been like, 15 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:11.840 Hey, go look at Xyz Company, go do what they're doing, or 16 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.920 go, you know, copy, but don't copy this company. Like we're 17 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.879 really told go look what everyone's doing. And Finding Different Angle. And so 18 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:26.159 the reason that keeps me engaged is I'm not trying to support the existing be 19 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.519 to be marketing, I'm trying to reshape it. I'm trying to do something 20 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.959 different. So every day I'm waking up, hey, what's a beatacy trend 21 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:36.400 that I can get inspired from? What is okay, everyone's going right and 22 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:38.280 be to be on Linkedin? Let's go left and let's do a completely different 23 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.239 and so that keeps me engage and, you know, the creative juice is 24 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.439 flowing, as they say. And so yeah, that's that's my favorite part. 25 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.480 Okay, I love that as a jumping off point and I love rabbit 26 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:51.560 trails, just so you know, Devin. So we're just going to go 27 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:56.159 right for it right from the beginning of this episode. So it's twofold right. 28 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.159 So one part for me would be, okay, have you? Have 29 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.920 you always been that way? And then to how do you allow or train 30 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:06.280 your team to be that way? So let's go with you personally first. 31 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.159 As far as I have you always kind of gone okay, everyone's going right, 32 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:13.000 I'm going to go left. Yeah, yeah, I have, which 33 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.919 is, you know, sus. Suits me well for my current role I 34 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:17.919 was like getting tattoos and high school I was like, you know, and 35 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.919 not to be like a Badass, but like I didn't can't, like I 36 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.840 wanted to do what I wanted to do and what I thought was cool, 37 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:25.120 which was, you know, I've always been into sneakers, so I would 38 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.960 show up in school like, you know, Tel and pink sneakers that are 39 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.800 like patent leather. I would show up with like a tattoo that was visible. 40 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.479 Now I'm covered in tattoos. Now the super cool and like accepted. 41 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:38.879 When I was getting them, they were like ten years ago it wasn't quite 42 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:45.520 as broadly accepted. But I remember this one time in elementary school, like 43 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.319 really little, and I remember just this thought of like I saw everyone lining 44 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.000 up a certain way. I think the teachers like asking people to line up 45 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:54.759 in a certain way, and it was chaos, like it was just not 46 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:58.159 working at all, and I was always like why are we doing it that 47 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.120 way? That makes no sense at all. We should be doing it this 48 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:01.639 way. I'm like six years old, what do I know? I'm probably 49 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:06.280 like completely wrong, but I just remember having that like little epiphany moment of 50 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.759 like I'm really confident in my perspective, and it's not arrogance, it's not 51 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:15.520 that I'm always right, I'm just really confident in let's be observant for a 52 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:20.039 second, let's see what everyone's doing and if it's obvious that's the right thing 53 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:21.960 to do, you know, go do it. Don't be different for the 54 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:23.639 sake of, you know, at the detriment of yourself. But I'm always 55 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.319 just have this perspective of I'm going to do it my way, I'm going 56 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.400 to enjoy it, and I think when I'm enjoying it, then I'm more 57 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.759 successful. Right, like I'm the the output is better when I'm really more 58 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:37.080 bought into that and doing my own thing. Hmm, I love that. 59 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.800 Okay, so then let's go just outward for a second then, because when 60 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:43.840 you bring somebody on the team and you're trying to not everyone's going to come 61 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.120 in with that as their backstory and you want to allow people to sort of 62 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.280 get in that mode. You want to create that culture. How do you, 63 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:54.560 I don't want to say train somebody's eye, but in a sense you 64 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.080 are. You're allowing them to see things differently, right, and you're like 65 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:00.800 hey, this is maybe a different way to look at it. And and 66 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.159 so how do you go about trying to do that? So starts in the 67 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:08.000 interview process and I tell people that reshape be to be marketing. Re shape 68 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.879 be to be marketing. Like that's really foundational to our team. We also 69 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:16.639 have a operating principle at Gong called Challenge Conventional Wisdom. So it's based on 70 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.439 this whole thing. Right. It's like don't do things the way that it's 71 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.800 always been done just for the sake of doing it that way. Right. 72 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.040 And so it starts an interview process like Hey, this is what we're about. 73 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.279 We do things differently. Now most people, especially on the mark getting 74 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:32.600 world, they know gone for the most part before they come talk to me. 75 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.160 So they're usually like yeah, I see what you all doing, I 76 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.639 want to be a part of that. So that's usually kind of the doors 77 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:44.000 already open. But what I've found is that there's a lot of fantastic marketers, 78 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.360 really smart, creative people who, by the time they come talk to 79 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.439 me, maybe two hundred, twenty five, maybe ten years in their career, 80 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:55.079 they've been boxed in over and over again with like now, don't do 81 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:56.720 that, do it this way. No, don't be that. You know, 82 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.000 in their in their ideas and creativity just get suppressed over years and so 83 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:05.680 used to doing safe marketing, and so there is a bit of an untraining 84 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:10.000 process when they come work with me where I'm like okay, we're like forget 85 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.480 all that stuff. I want you to think big. I want you to 86 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.720 come up with, you know, what seemed like crazy ideas. Think of 87 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.639 the best, biggest thing we could do, and then we'll back into like 88 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.519 how does this operation allies? How do we measure it, and that sort 89 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:27.920 of thing, because that's how really great ideas come about, when you start 90 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.160 with like why know I need to get this metric done and I know that 91 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.920 I can do a cookie cutter Webinar and I'm doing like robotic arms for people 92 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:36.759 who can't see me right now. Like that's really hard to get too big, 93 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.600 great ideas that are going to grab attention and like really move the market, 94 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:42.639 and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to educate the market 95 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.360 and move it in our direction, not just add to the noise. HMM, 96 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.759 story for you, I think it's the it's eat. I know, 97 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:51.720 I wish I knew. It's either uber or air BNB, but I was 98 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.519 listening to a podcast and they were talking about this one up system that they 99 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.360 use, that I actually used when I proposed to my wife, where I 100 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.600 literally just grabbed a piece of paper and I wrote like level one proposal idea 101 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.079 and then like, you know, just the bare bones. This would be 102 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:12.759 a basic proposal, and I just go like level to and I just like, 103 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:15.839 okay, what's one way I could one up this? And I worked 104 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.120 it up to like level eight, level nine. I'm going, okay, 105 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:21.399 now it's getting pretty unrealistic, but like could we do level seven right, 106 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:26.040 like could we? Yeah, I like that's even just some sort of strategy 107 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.839 like that when someone's been boxed in for a long time and you just ask 108 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.560 them, okay, what's one way you could make your content strategy a little 109 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.519 bit better? What's one way, as a marketer, that you could change, 110 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.680 you know, some of your copic just allowing yourself to one up in 111 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.839 some small ways. Eventually you look back and go like Oh man, yeah, 112 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.639 my first idea kind of sucked, like that first thing was. Yeah, 113 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:51.920 I didn't mean to talk over but that's exactly go when we do brainstorms 114 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.000 right, and it's kind of tough, specially virtual and like I'm the leader 115 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.480 of the teams. I think sometimes people kind of wait for what I'm going 116 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.480 to say, but I try to be quiet and go last. And as 117 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:03.800 people are starting to kind of like though those first ideas out there, you 118 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:08.040 know, it's like the wheels just starting getting turning. I tell people like 119 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:11.600 hey, that's a good idea. Our first idea is rarely our best idea. 120 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:14.040 So let's keep going, like to your point, keep thinking bigger. 121 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:15.439 What would be even more different? What you know? What is it again, 122 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:18.360 going back to has this been done before? Oh Yeah, I seen 123 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:20.639 this done. I've seen it here here. Okay, then let's go. 124 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.439 We got to go left or right, like we can't just keep doing more 125 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:26.959 of the same. And so it does take people a little bit of time, 126 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.480 I think, to allow themselves right to think. They like to get 127 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:32.480 to level nine. You know what I mean, because they've never been pushed 128 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:35.160 to do that. People are like just level one in two. Let's just 129 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:39.279 do level one in two and then let's do a lot of one and two. 130 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.160 It's all you're doing is creating a lot of mediocrity. I'd rather have 131 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:46.600 blips of greatness than waves of mediocrity. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, 132 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.759 don't tell me you have no creative ideas. Show me a list of all 133 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.160 the things you've you know, you can think of, like once you have 134 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:57.240 that list going, you'll realize like how much creativity is inside you. That's 135 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.839 why I love working and in marketing, because there's so many people that are 136 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:05.240 like figuring out creative ways to make new stuff and like whether I'm be Toc 137 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.800 or be to be like coming into be tob you know, it's a little 138 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:09.959 bit like kind of what you're mentioning is it can feel a little more like 139 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.519 restrictive or but you still find pockets of it where, like, man, 140 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.399 they're thinking outside the box, they're doing creative stuff, and that those are 141 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.959 the most fun conversations that have talk to me a little bit about. Let's 142 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.800 go content side of things, because there is personal and then there's like company, 143 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:30.800 there's gone, there's brand. How do you think of those two differently? 144 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.960 And I'm going to keep using your language of like okay, you see 145 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.240 people going right and now we're going left, so let's talk personal. First, 146 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:41.240 for you, devn like, when it comes to Linkedin, you fiftyzero 147 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.960 plus followers at this point, like you're doing some things you've tried a lot 148 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.159 of different things. What was your pivot? Like? I'm seeing a lot 149 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:52.399 of people doing this and now for me personally, I'm going to go the 150 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.480 opposite way. So what I did was I looked at Linkedin, which is 151 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.919 my platform of choice. So if I say social or anything moving forward, 152 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.559 I'm pretty much on email and linkedin. Those are two channels and I can 153 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.000 talk about why I'm big on those two channels specifically, not me personally big, 154 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.080 but why I'm all in on those channels. Yeah, and so I'm 155 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.480 I was a sales rep right for the first six years of my career and 156 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:16.879 I've been on Linkedin a little bit, mostly prospecting sounding not really like writing 157 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.679 a lot of content, but I was consuming a lot of content, seeing 158 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:24.120 what people are writing about, and I kind of saw that it was relatively 159 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:26.639 dry, and I just mean that is like there wasn't a lot of pop 160 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.000 to it, right, like you wouldn't read someone and be like, Oh, 161 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.200 that Benjy Guy, like know, the way he writes is amazing. 162 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.879 You just saw like how many logos on papers and blogs and all kind of 163 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.639 read the same. Like if you if you put your hand over the website 164 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.720 url or like logo. I bet you couldn't really tell the difference of like 165 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.919 commodity content. Yep, right, and so I was like, okay, 166 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.759 I'm just noticing this, observing. And then when I moved into the marketing 167 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.120 roll, I started being you know, I'm on Webinars for Gong, I'm 168 00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.399 writing blogs for going, and so I saw it as an opportunity to say, 169 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.240 well, I didn't really like learning about the X Y Z company blog. 170 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.559 No offense to any of them, but I would really enjoy when I 171 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:09.960 learned about the person, like the author, the podcast host, the show 172 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.480 host, like that's who you oftentimes tune in for. The show is just 173 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.200 the thing around them. And so when I was on link going back to 174 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:20.039 like Linkedin in myself, I was like, hey, why don't I be 175 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.919 different? Why not be who I am half more fun doing it, and 176 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.799 try to be relatable and try to stand out in that order. And so 177 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.320 what I when I say related able? I think a lot of people again, 178 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.799 we're just like share, you know. Again, I'm talking three, 179 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.519 four years ago on Linkedin, when it was like job, just it was 180 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.279 like who's hiring? Webinars and like just, I don't know, kind of 181 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.080 mediocre content, like no one was really a building a brand. That wasn't 182 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.559 even a thing three years ago. So I was like I'm just gonna have 183 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.000 fun with it, and so I would try to be as relatable as possible, 184 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.639 which was sharing my stories and experiences with like a bit of a humor, 185 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.440 you know, like a comedic twist to it, because I think I'm 186 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.840 funny. I always tell people I can guarantee jokes, I can't promise laughs, 187 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:03.559 and so I would just have fun with it right, which is like, 188 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:05.799 Hey, just got hung up on for the third time this morning. 189 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.799 Anyone with me? And I just put it out there like randomly, and 190 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.559 no one was writing like that on Linkedin, and so I really quickly started 191 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.279 building this audience of like other sales pros and go to market pros who are 192 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.000 like, Oh, yeah, that's really relatable, I've been there. or 193 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.759 Oh, Devin just got hung up on three times in a row and now 194 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.159 he's sharing what he would do instead. That's super helpful, and so I 195 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.480 started kind of turning these experiences from just sharing them for the entertainments sake and 196 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.399 started adding an educational part of it as well, which was like, you 197 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.679 know, I just posted this morning. Hey, know, hey, I'm 198 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.080 not a DM, but I have a budget. Here's the best way to 199 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.840 email me. If you want to get on, you know, get a 200 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.879 meeting with me, and I just broke down here the steps and it's starting 201 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.960 to go. You know, people love that because I'm helping them through my 202 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:54.799 experience versus just hey, I've sent true thousand emails in my career and here's 203 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:56.559 the best way to you know, here's the best way to write an email 204 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.519 and like try to act like I know it all. That's my standing on 205 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:05.200 a soapbox voice, and so it's like so that relatable factor has played really, 206 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.799 really well, and I think that's really helpful for people who are getting 207 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:13.240 started. Is I lean on your niche knowledge and your experience to help other 208 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.840 people. That's the best content strategy. Hey, everybody, Benjie here. 209 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.519 As a member of the sweet fish team. I wanted to take a second 210 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.519 and share something that makes us insanely more efficient. Our team uses lead Iq. 211 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.720 For those that are in sales, or you're in sales offs, let 212 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.759 me give you context. What once took us four hours to gather contact data 213 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:37.039 now just takes one. That's seventy five percent more efficient. We are so 214 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:43.360 much quicker without bound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 215 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.600 I highly suggest that you check out lead Iq as well. You can 216 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:54.960 find them at lead iqcom. That's L ADIQCOM. All right, let's jump 217 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.720 back into the show. So that relatable factor has played really, really well 218 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.360 and I think that's really helpful for people who are getting started. Is I 219 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.960 lean on your niche knowledge and your experience to help other people. That's the 220 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.759 best content strategy. It is the best content strategy. I think we're going 221 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:13.519 back to like what you were saying about if you covered the logo. What's 222 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:18.399 happening on Linkedin a bit now is people are understanding like entertainment and education works. 223 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.600 If you get in the right bubbles on of content on Linkedin right you're 224 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.960 still can you could run into endless webin our links and whatever if you are 225 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.360 in the wrong network, but if you're following the right people, you're going 226 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.000 to get a lot of like helpful content that. But what I've noticed is 227 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:37.120 like now you the personality of the person really matters, like you have to 228 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.120 be willing to kind of put yourself out there and I've even noticed this. 229 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:43.720 With your content, is like you've gone pretty like personal, as in, 230 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:46.960 like you're going to highlight your wife or the fact that you really love sneakers 231 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.360 or like those types of things that aren't necessarily like the content you would see 232 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:58.440 on Linkedin as far as even educational or entertainment, but allowing someone to see 233 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.799 your life, which is thinking about Linkedin, I think, and thinking about 234 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.240 content differently than a few years ago, where maybe all you had to do 235 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:11.360 was be educational or entertaining, and now video as a big component of that 236 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.919 too. I don't that's a little bit of a riff, but that's just 237 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.519 what I'm noticing. Is the personality in business and in be to be where 238 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:24.559 that's hasn't mattered, is starting to matter more and more. One hundred percent, 239 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.679 and it was. It was intentional, right, and it's not. 240 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.279 It's not to share or two like oversharing for the sake of like, look 241 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:31.399 how great my life is, anything like that. If you read it's like 242 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:33.639 pick yet picture of my wife. Yeah, why? Because you did her 243 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:35.720 first Webinar and I was super proud of her, so I want to give 244 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.639 her a shower, right and like, at the same time she's a woman 245 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:41.799 of color and tech, and so I'm realizing, Hey, I've got fifty 246 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.919 fivezero followers. If I amplify that, this great woman of Color has this 247 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.840 new platform, I can hopefully inspire other women, and you know, either 248 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.799 other women of Color in tech that they can do the same or other people 249 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.519 who might not be you know, white people are not people of color, 250 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.039 to say hey, maybe we should give them a platform. Right, like 251 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.200 other people are doing it right. So that was, you know, had 252 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.720 multiple advantages, obviously aside from just genuinely being proud of my wife. That 253 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:09.799 example, this side, because I don't want to make it seem like I'm 254 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.440 using the family to stand out. But like the sneakers aspect right, like 255 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.120 I've unboxing videos of me, like hey, I got a pair of sneakers 256 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.519 here, here they are. My thought is, you know, there's a 257 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.879 lot of content creators on Linkedin, there's a lot of content leaders on Linkedin. 258 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:30.000 There's really not a lot of content leaders talking about sneakers on Linkedin. 259 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:33.240 Like I immediately kind of stand alone, and so my thought is, what 260 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.159 are ways I can differentiate myself to stand out but again still provide some sort 261 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:41.320 of edutain edutainment, as I call it, you know, educational, entertaining 262 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.519 content, and when I first put it out I was like people probably going 263 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.000 to laugh or I think this like the stupidest thing, like what are sneakers 264 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.960 doing on my linkedin feed? But people love it, people respond. All 265 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.840 you have the Nikes, I were these new balance or I just bought a 266 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.159 pair of these and I'm like wow, who would have thought there were such 267 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.759 an appetite forever sneakers on a Linkedin feed? But you know, there's there's 268 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.440 tons of there's tons of room for for content like that. Are you like 269 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:10.399 encouraging your team to be active in Tho like on Linkedin as well? If 270 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.159 so, like how do you guys go about doing that and in equipping or 271 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.200 training like on that side? For for more, like you're kind of going 272 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.519 there's an advantage to personal brands that are also, you know, tied to 273 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:26.279 Gong. So how do you how do you think of that? Yeah, 274 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.799 so it's kind of to one is like my team. I have a team 275 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:32.039 five marketers, and then there's like the Gong team, like and those are 276 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:36.000 two different answers. So for the folks on my team, I mean first 277 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:40.080 of all, having a digital brand will help you get on my radar if 278 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:41.960 you're trying to get a job here. Like no one on my team did. 279 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.960 I hire that a huge personal brand. The managing editor, Chris, 280 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.519 that I just hired from Linkedin has over a hundred thousand followers, but that's 281 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.639 because he wrote a newsletter for Linkedin for a long time, right, and 282 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:53.879 so that was like, oh, that's a great asset, but you don't 283 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.440 win a you don't win a job just over that. And so what I've 284 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.840 told my team is, look, if you want to build a digital brand, 285 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.440 I know how and I'm you know, I'm happy to show you and 286 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.160 help you, but you don't have to, like. I don't want you 287 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.599 to feel pressured, and most of them just like, aren't super interested in 288 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.079 that. One Galon my team has a quite successful podcast for southeast women, 289 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.319 Southeast Asian women, ex season, and so like that's her version of her 290 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.079 brand. She's been on Forbes India, like she's probably more famous than me 291 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.079 in certain pockets of the world for short, but it's not on Linkedin, 292 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:30.480 right, and so I think it's like presenting the opportunity and encouraging them if 293 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.359 they want to do it. The way, you know, but also open, 294 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:33.799 you know, letting them, you know, go to podcast, go, 295 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.960 do you know, newsletters, whatever it is for the draw me to 296 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.559 talk about me, the Gong team to because let's do that les. Yeah, 297 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.599 it is different, but I'd love to hear it on that side as 298 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.799 well. So it was very intentional. So there's a it sounds very markety, 299 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.960 but I there happens to be three e's, a threee framework. Of 300 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.799 course there's wool these. Yeah, yeah, it just happened to I was 301 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.079 writing it down on days like they hang it. They all start with E, 302 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.039 which makes it sound like I like made it up on purpose. But 303 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.960 it's to empower, enable and equip. And so empowering is, Hey, 304 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:10.319 when you join Gong, you're going to see the people and leadership positions posting 305 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.200 on Linkedin, right, so they're leading by example. We're empowering you because 306 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:15.720 we're saying hey, we're doing it to other leaders in the company. You're 307 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.960 doing it. We're building on personal brands or talking about Gong. We're educating 308 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.400 the market. So immediately you feel empowered to do it. You're not worried 309 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:26.799 of, as Devin is, my boss going to see my clankton post is 310 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.519 somebody in h are going to Ping me because I talked about politics and there's 311 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.440 we have some parameters. We Guide people. There's no there's no restrictions for 312 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:41.119 certain topics and the next one is equipped. So then we when everyone joins 313 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.839 Gong, there's two sessions as part of their on boarding. One is just 314 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.720 the marketing strategy. Here's what we do, why we do it. Hey, 315 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:49.799 we're on linkedin. You'll get some messages from Devin from time to time 316 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.720 to share some content. Completely optional, but here's why. Right then, 317 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.279 when people are understanding, the other session is specifically with two people from my 318 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:00.319 team, I think, one now, which is here's how to use linkedin. 319 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:06.599 Nothing about Gong. It's just here's some best practices filling out your profile, 320 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.200 things to talk about, things to be cautious of talking about. You're 321 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.440 welcome to do it, but like things like political we've an optional yeah, 322 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.920 it's just a guidings because a lot of people join in the go. Hey, 323 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:21.039 I've seen gongs big on Linkedin. I'm not really familiar with how can 324 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:22.880 you teach me what I don't know? Type of thing. Right. So 325 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.640 it's just kind of getting over that initial hurdle and providing like a thirty, 326 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.160 forty five minute session to ask questions and get that in from mintion. The 327 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:34.319 last one is enable, which is how we amplify, you know, Gong 328 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.000 Messaging, which is, you know, we have a certain process where we 329 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.799 share things the email and slag has to be tier one and tier two messaging, 330 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.440 like new product release, funding, maybe gone labs, research, stuff 331 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.519 like that, and we make it really easy by giving them the one one 332 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.440 and writing prompts so they can, I think, this information, make it 333 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:57.039 their own and go publish it on Linkedin. Again, completely optional, but 334 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.039 again because they see our CEO, they see Dev and they see Sarah Brazier, 335 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:02.920 they see their peers doing it, they're like, oh, I could 336 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:04.160 do it to it's on. It's not even a big deal, and so 337 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.880 then you start creating this kind of like fly will effect. You know, 338 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.400 people from outside of going see what people in going are doing and they become 339 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.599 part of it and then the wheel just continues to spend. MMM, I 340 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.799 like that. Even those three e's are applicable regardless of what company or and 341 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.359 if you don't have that at scale, even just having maybe one person that 342 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.039 you can again like a big part of leadership right is being able to see 343 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.319 things and people. If you see that ability, they're like I would just 344 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.640 build that into that person. Say Hey, like, can you start to 345 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.960 really engage in a different way and equip our team in a new way to 346 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.880 be effective over like on Linkedin or whatever, your kind of channel of choices. 347 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.720 But having that as a as a starting places, is wonderful. All 348 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.279 Right, I'm gonna allow you to get back on your soapbox here as we 349 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.599 start to wrap up. If you were advocating for some sort of change in 350 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.119 be to be marketing more as a whole, let's let's keep it within content, 351 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.079 because that's that's the the waters that we swim in. But, like, 352 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.880 what do you think is some of those major shifts that you hope happen 353 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.519 over the next year to two years? I think I mean, and not 354 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.319 just because we just talked about it, but it's it's like fostering creators in 355 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.720 your company, because there's so much benefit to having that. And here's what's 356 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.640 here's this funny example. I was talking to somebody. She's leading content this 357 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.000 at this company, I won't say who, and they're essentially like they have 358 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.200 a bunch of consultants right, like what they do is like services and consultants, 359 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.680 and so they're supposed to be the experts in this space, this niche 360 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.359 that they have. Their the experts, but their CEO doesn't want any of 361 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.960 them building a personal brand and being known as experts. Wow, why? 362 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.319 Because he's afraid that people will they'll become an expert and then they'll leave or 363 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:42.839 they'll get, you know, they'll get recruited. And so I'm like, 364 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.880 wow, what a what a kind of an old mindset, not an old 365 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:49.839 per scarcity mindset. Yeah, here's mindset, and an older, like archaic 366 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.640 mind says better. What I should use of like the other way to view 367 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.359 it is, what if everyone was known as an expert? What do you 368 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.640 think? What happened? Clients and other experts would flock to you because they 369 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.400 want to be on that team. HMM. And so that's the way I 370 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.720 view it, for kind of like where you called a personal brand, digital 371 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.400 brand, whatever, like enable and equip and empower people to be creators. 372 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.519 Because, you know, if you're a podcast company, right, or content 373 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.359 agency, and Ben he's like known as the podcast guy and like wow, 374 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:25.319 you got to go to learn from Benji customers and other great talent will want 375 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.240 to work with Benjie and with that company, and so that's what I think 376 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.319 it's like. It's so obvious. And then the other part two is those 377 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.200 creators will if you, if you invest in those creators, they will reciprocate 378 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.400 by sharing. You know, they'll be proud to work at that company. 379 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.039 And that's where you get more marketing amplification, which is like, you know, 380 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.720 for example, with going we're throwing a virtual conference right now. There's 381 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.519 over threezero people registered and about a thousand, I think of, come from 382 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:55.240 gongsters, sharing on Linkedin and inviting people. Thousand People. That's more than 383 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.039 what most be to be companies under a thousand employees can get at an event, 384 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.759 right, and that's just from this process we're talking about. So the 385 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.119 reason I'm really passionate about it is because it's one of those few mutually beneficial 386 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.680 things you can do. or it's not just all about the company, it's 387 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.400 not just all about the individual. It's truly symbiotic and both can really benefit 388 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:17.559 from it. Yep, it touches on so many of like the things we're 389 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:22.359 seeing change all at once. But again, going back to most of what 390 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:27.400 we've ended up talking about today, that personality of your people. Like you, 391 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.279 you hired them because they're also a good fit in your culture and your 392 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.440 team. So if they're sharing what they're passionate about, if you've equipped them 393 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:40.240 in the right way, like it does nothing except brand amplification. It's marketing 394 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.960 that's baked in and it's good for them personally. So it's like it is 395 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.440 a win win. But you have to flip the mindset. It's hard for 396 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.200 me to even go to that archaic mindset because of just like have the privilege 397 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.799 of like joining in the sphere that I'm in and just like have living in 398 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.240 this ecosystem. But you hear about it and you're kind of like, man 399 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.440 MIS I'm glad I'm over here. Yeah, I'm going on where I'm at 400 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.039 and I'm glad be to be is moving in that way, taking some lessons, 401 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.640 whether it's from B Toc or other spaces, but it's fun to be 402 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.200 on those, those front lines and inviting more be to be companies to this 403 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.359 way. So, Devin, thanks, man for jumping on here. I 404 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.319 know you're working on a lot of stuff. Tell us a little bit of 405 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.480 maybe what you're up to where people can connect. Clearly, linkedin and email 406 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.000 is what Devin has already said are the places. But tell us a bit 407 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.079 of what you're doing. Yeah, of course. If you want to see 408 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.880 some of the stuff we're talking about, for Gong, you know, go 409 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:34.640 over to you and go go to gon dot Ao check out the resource Shub 410 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.640 if you want to look at some of the content. Or, you know, 411 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.640 you can subscribe to our newsletter, follow us on Linkedin. For me 412 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:45.079 personally, also follow me on Linkedin if you like anything I said or if 413 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.119 you don't like what I said, you want to argue with me on Linkedin, 414 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.559 feel free. I don't respond to too many negative comments, but you're 415 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:53.599 welcome. But not I also have a newsletter, the content strategy reader, 416 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:59.000 where every week I go deep on one topic for content strategy in creation. 417 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.519 So it's completely free. Takes less than five minutes to read. So you 418 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:06.960 can check that out at the reader dot Com rbed. And then I also 419 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:11.319 have a personal branding course for Linkedin for folks that are interested. So partnered 420 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.720 with the folks over at JB sales or John Barrow sales put a course together. 421 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.720 It's about an hour long to see how to create high quality content, 422 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.400 build a personal brand with credibility on Linkedin. So if any that stuff sounds 423 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.160 interesting, go check it out. For sure. Yeah, we want to 424 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.119 invite our listeners to go do that, connect with Devin and and thanks so 425 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.400 much for for spending some time with us today. Man here on BB growth. 426 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.559 Of course, I really did enjoy Benjie, and you've got a skill 427 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.000 for this thing. Keep this in the edit. Don't cut this out, 428 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.680 Benjie, you're really good at what you do. I appreciate you. Thank 429 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.440 you. I appreciate that. For our listeners, if you're checking this out 430 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.119 because you saw Devan's name on the show, or maybe you're just interested in 431 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.640 content strategy and this one stuck out to you but you haven't yet followed the 432 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.400 podcast, do that on whatever podcast player you're listening to it on. We'd 433 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:02.160 love to stay connected and have you never miss an episode and definitely find me 434 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:03.319 over on Linkedin as well. I'd love to chat with you about marketing, 435 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.519 business life. I'm active over there as well. Just Search Benjie Bock. 436 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.319 Thanks for listening. Everybody. Will be back real soon with another episode. 437 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.720 We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. 438 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.720 If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need 439 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.400 to have on the show, reach out. Email me, Benjie dot block, 440 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.119 at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to hearing from you.